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Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru

[es] :: Embedded sistemi :: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru

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asutic

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icon Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru13.04.2005. u 09:19 - pre 231 meseci
Pozdrav svima!

U poslednje vreme sam poceo da radim na VoIP aplikaciji koja, izmedju ostalog, koristi SoC baziran na ARM procesoru. Malo vise detalja o ovome mozete procitati na FSM forumu na adresi [url http://www.fsn.org.yu/modules....3810a6888eac3ecc33ede3430ffd32 /url]. Kao neko ko je prakticno nov u Linux svetu, i ko uopste nije programer, nalazim se ne u takoj prijatnoj poziciji. Zanima me da li se neko od vas ranije bavio slicnim stvarima i da li bi imao neke preporuke ili savete da mi da. Mozda neko hoce da se prikljuci projektu?

Sve u svemu, projekat je definitivno zanimljiv i obecava, ali imace puno posla da se uradi.
 
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caboom
Igor Bogicevic
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru13.04.2005. u 16:34 - pre 231 meseci
hmm... mislim da linux i nije najsrecnije resenje za Hard RTOS. nije mi poznato da postoji zaista pravi Hard RTOS na nivou linux kernel-a, ali ako ti je dovoljan Soft RTOS mogao bi da pogledas neke od ponudjenjih linux RT distribucija:

http://www.mvista.com/
http://www.fsmlabs.com/

(btw. ovaj hard-realtime koji se pominje je malko "fleksibilan" pojam, posto linux kernel nije dizajniran tako da moze da ti garantuje worst-case latenciju)
 
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slonce
Milan Banovic
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru13.04.2005. u 16:41 - pre 231 meseci
Kolega caboom, zaboravili ste i

http://www.rtai.org
 
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caboom
Igor Bogicevic
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru13.04.2005. u 19:23 - pre 231 meseci
kolega slonce, zahvaljujem na ispravci :)
 
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 07:43 - pre 231 meseci
>
Mislim da si zanemario cinjenicu da uz Linux koristimo i RTAI
(Real-Time Application Interface) patch koji upravo obezbedjuje hard
real-time funkcionalnosti. Upravo ovaj patch smanjuje latency tako sto
onemogucava Linux da maskira prekide. Pogledaj http://www.rtai.org/, a
mogu da posaljem i jos neke dokumente koji se odnose na RTAI (sve to
moze da se nadje na webu).

Sam kernel nikada nece biti hard RTOS posto se sa time ne slaze
Linus. Smatra da to nije potrebno jer su procesori sve brzi i sve
mocniji, a i programeri bi poceli da zloupotrebljavaju prioritet procesa
(svaki bi programer zeleo da bas njegov program ima najvisi prioritet u
sistemu).

Pozdrav!
 
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salec

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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 13:14 - pre 231 meseci
Koristi li neko eCOS?
 
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caboom
Igor Bogicevic
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 14:24 - pre 231 meseci
Citat:
asutic: >
Mislim da si zanemario cinjenicu da uz Linux koristimo i RTAI
(Real-Time Application Interface) patch koji upravo obezbedjuje hard
real-time funkcionalnosti. Upravo ovaj patch smanjuje latency tako sto
onemogucava Linux da maskira prekide.

da li si potpuno siguran da to resava sve probleme? nisam nikada detaljno pogledao RTAI patch-eve, ali ako premotam kroz glavu linux arhitekturu rekao bih bi tako nesto nad linux kernelom bilo moguce samo uz odredjeni prosireni API sto znaci baj, baj portabilnosti. anyway, voleo bih da cujem rezultate da li je zaista u pitanju industry-grade hard RTOS u pitanju.
sto se tice linusa, on je ... nekompetentan. uvek se setim njegove genijalne "well, why would we need threads, we can clone().". naravno, to je rekao u trenutku kada linux nije imao kernel thread-ove. ponekada se pitam da li ih ima i danas...
 
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 15:17 - pre 231 meseci
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
    Koliko sam upucen, RTAI patch je upravo pravljen, kao sto rekoh, da
obezbedi hard RTOS mogucnosti Linux kernela. Ovaj patch ne funkcionise
tako sto menja kernel ili njegov API, vec predstavlja omotac oko
kernela koji ima visi prioritet u odnosi na kernel. Ako se pojavi neki
proces (kao sto je prekidna rutina) visokog prioriteta, procesor ce
biti dodeljen ovom procesu, bez obzira da li se neki drugi proces
izvrsava u kernel modu (gde nema preuzimanja). Zapravo, kernel kao da
je proces najnizeg prioriteta za RTAI.<br>
<br>
    Ne znam da li sam ti pruzio dovoljno informacija. Ne zameri ako ovo
sto sam rekao i nije bas najjasnije. Ipak nisam programer, a pripremu
kernela sa RTAI patchom ne radim ja, vec lik koji je itekako
kompetentan za Linux i real-time embedded sisteme. Pozivam te da
pogledas malo detaljnije dokumentaciju za RTAI ako hoces preciznije
informacije o njemu. Evo malo citata da te zainteresuju:<br>
<br>
"The real-time Linux scheduler treats the Linux operating system kernel
as the<br>
idle task. Linux only executes when there are no real time tasks to
run, and the<br>
real time kernel is inactive. The Linux task can never block interrupts
or<br>
prevent itself from being preempted. The mechanism that makes this
possible<br>
is the software emulation of interrupt control hardware. When any code
in<br>
Linux tries to disable interrupts, the real time system intercepts the
request,<br>
records it, and returns it to Linux. In fact, Linux is not permitted to
ever really<br>
disable hardware interrupts, and hence, regardless of the state of
Linux, it<br>
cannot add latency to the interrupt response time of the real time
system. When<br>
an interrupt occurs, the real time kernel intercepts the interrupt and
decides<br>
what to dispatch. If there is a real time handler for the interrupt,
the appropriate<br>
handler is invoked. If there is no real time interrupt handler, or if
the handler<br>
indicates that it wants to share the interrupt with Linux, then the
interrupt is<br>
marked as pending. If Linux has requested that interrupts be enabled,
any<br>
pending interrupts are enabled, and the appropriate Linux interrupt
handler<br>
invoked - with hardware interrupts re-enabled. Regardless of the state
of Linux:<br>
running in kernel mode; running a user process; disabling or enabling<br>
interrupts; the real-time system is always able to respond to an
interrupt."<br>
<br>
"RTAI provides deterministic and preemptive performance in addition to<br>
allowing the use of all standard Linux drivers, applications and
functions."<br>
<br>
"Linux no longer has direct control over enabling and disabling<br>
interrupts. So when Linux says disable interrupts, the RT kernel simply
clears<br>
an internal software interrupt enable flag but leaves interrupts
enabled.<br>
When a hardware interrupt occurs, the RT kernel first determines to
whom it<br>
is directed... The Linux kernel is treated as the lowest priority, or
idle, task under the RT<br>
kernel and only runs when there are no real-time tasks ready to run."<br>
<br>
<img alt="rtai.png" src="cid:[email protected]"
height="270" width="469"><br>
<br>
    Pozdrav!<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
</pre>
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 15:20 - pre 231 meseci
Izvinjavam se zbog uploada slike. Ocigledno da nije uspelo. Silly me!
 
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Igor Bogicevic
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icon Re: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru14.04.2005. u 20:57 - pre 231 meseci
pa u sustini ovo su neke osnovne stvari, ali mene brinu detaljcici kao sto je context switching i celokupno ponasanje - nije sve u obaranju prioriteta. nemam sada vremena da prekopam dokumentaciju, ali jedan zanimljiv overview:
http://www.fdn.fr/~brouchou/rtai/rtai-doc-prj/rtai-fusion.html
mozda se deo toga promenio sa kernelom 2.6.x i RTAI patch-evima za njega, ali generalno - koristiti kernel 2.6.x u produkcionim uslovima mozda i nije najbolje resenje. dunnow, treba prekopati.
 
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[es] :: Embedded sistemi :: Hard RTOS: linux+RTAI na ARM procesoru

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