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Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!

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Dragi Tata
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icon Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!25.04.2003. u 22:36 - pre 238 meseci
Ovo je zanimljivo:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133899,00.html

"You pushed some of the IIS into the kernel, didn't you?
We have what we call a listener, an HTTP handler that we pushed into the kernel. We were looking at how to improve performance. Requests come in and go all the way through the networking and back into user mode where they're handed off. There is a huge amount of the web traffic that you can respond to very quickly without having to have a user mode. So there's HTTP.SYS, a driver that runs in kernel mode and responds in ways that are very well understood, with some parsing and quite a bit of caching, and it handles sessions and it's a huge performance win.

Personally, I'm against shoving things into the kernel. That was a very careful decision. We have a lot of parsing in there, and that opens you up to buffer overruns and attacks. The amount of scrutiny that code has got is just plain ugly. Anything that gets it confused gets shoved straight back up."

A pazite tek ovo:

"
Why is there no command line only version?
We're looking longer term to see what can be done, looking at the layers and what's available at each layer and how do we make it much closer to the thing the Linux guys have -- having only the pieces you want running. That's something Linux has that's ahead of us, but we're looking at it. We will have a command line-only version, but whether it'll have all the features in is another matter. A lot of the tools depend on having the graphical interface. Printing, for example, requires all the graphics subsystems because we have the "what you see is what you get" model. You need to have the whole of the display stuff to render it. It's a very tangled subsystem."
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!26.04.2003. u 00:08 - pre 238 meseci
Zar nije to divno l;))))

I onda, ako ti sutra nekakva glupost padne da stavis neki drugi httpd, videces kako IIS "outperforms" taj neki levi alternativni httpd.


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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!26.04.2003. u 03:34 - pre 238 meseci
Na performansama će verovatno dosta i dobiti i to je dobra strana.. ali znajući koliko je IIS bio "siguran" do sada, mislim da možemo da očekujemo niz novih security propusta, ovaj put na nivou kernela :)
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!26.04.2003. u 12:58 - pre 238 meseci
Na kraju ima da naguraju najnoviji Win sa svim i svacim u Xbox i samo tako da ga prodaju :)
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degojs

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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!27.04.2003. u 18:47 - pre 238 meseci
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1041692,00.asp

"IIS uptime and performance have been improved with a new in-kernel HTTP request queue and static and dynamic content cache called http.sys. This approach has proved effective on other platforms; Red Hat Inc.'s Red Hat Linux, Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Solaris and IBM's AIX all offer in-kernel HTTP page caches."



[Ovu poruku je menjao Dragi Tata dana 30.04.2003. u 09:19 GMT]
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!27.04.2003. u 20:21 - pre 238 meseci
MS godinama postepeno spusta drajvere u ring0, prvo je to bio networking support (NT 3.x), pa onda graficki podsistem (NT 4.0, jer je Win95 look&feel bio neupotrebljivo spor sa NT 3.5 ring3 grafickim podsistemom)

Da bi se danas stiglo do TCP/IP podsistema.

Ne vidim u cemu je problem, posto neki konkurentni OS-evi imaju mnogo vise stvari naguranih u ring0 - a na kraju krajeva HTTP servis je iskljucivo Microsoftov, tako da nema bojazni da ce neki kosooki proizvodjac jeftinih kartica napraviti los drajver.

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!27.04.2003. u 23:25 - pre 238 meseci
Citat:
B o j a n:
Zar nije to divno l;))))

I onda, ako ti sutra nekakva glupost padne da stavis neki drugi httpd, videces kako IIS "outperforms" taj neki levi alternativni httpd.



Niko ne sprecava alternativne vendore da napisu ring0 drajver za handlovanje HTTP zahteva i na Win platformi, kao sto to rade na mnogim unixoidima. Cudi me da to niko do sad nije uradio.

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!28.04.2003. u 22:21 - pre 238 meseci
Dobro, a kakvi su komentari za drugi citat - o command line only Windows-u?
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!28.04.2003. u 22:23 - pre 238 meseci
cmdline windows? Pa zar to ne moze da se napravi sa onim WinNT embedded vec?

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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degojs

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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!28.04.2003. u 22:38 - pre 238 meseci
Što se tice cmd line only, kome treba takvo što - dobro će mu doći. Mislim da je takva stvar sasvim OK, isto kao što i Windows Server od sad ima i posebno Web Edition. Kome treba samo WWW (+ file i print server) nema potrebe da plaća za drugo. Uz poboljšanu sigurnost i stabilnost koja i nije problem odavno, čini mi se da udaraju na svim frontovima po Unix-u. Definitivno dobra ideja.

[Ovu poruku je menjao degojs dana 28.04.2003. u 16:41 GMT]
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!28.04.2003. u 22:39 - pre 238 meseci
Ja sam oduševljen sa idejom o command line only windows serveru.

Eto čak toliko da bih probao i ES pod time, pa možemo da uporedimo performanse. Ako je security odgovarajući, zašto da ne. :) Ako bi donirali jednu server kopiju naravno. I parče hardvera tu i tamo. :)
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!29.04.2003. u 01:14 - pre 238 meseci
OS je proizvod, i niko ne obavezuje kompaniju da objavljuje source - cak i objavljivanje koda u javnosti ne mora uvek biti apsolutno pozitivna stvar.

MS-ova politika je takva kakva jeste, i ljudi mogu i ne moraju koristiti MS softver. Moje je misljenje da MS radi sasvim zadovoljavajuci posao prolagodjen ciljnim grupama, gde je trenutno dominantno desktop-OS trziste.

Pominjati MS bugove je smesno, priroda razvoja softvera je takva - ja nisam video GPL paket koji nije patio od milion problema do 1.0 stable verzije (ako su neki ikad i dogurali dotle) - pa i tada su patili od mnogih propusta.

Na kraju krajeva, ne vidim ni cilj nekoj apologetici svog omiljenog OS-a... trziste je jako veliko, za 5-6 godina ce se videti ko ce imati prednost u server marketu, za desktop je gotovo sigurno, - no to ni nije preterano bitno da bi izazivalo necije emotivne reakcije, ne? :)

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!29.04.2003. u 01:25 - pre 238 meseci
Citat:
Ivan Dimkovic:
OS je proizvod, i niko ne obavezuje kompaniju da objavljuje source - cak i objavljivanje koda u javnosti ne mora uvek biti apsolutno pozitivna stvar.

MS-ova politika je takva kakva jeste, i ljudi mogu i ne moraju koristiti MS softver. Moje je misljenje da MS radi sasvim zadovoljavajuci posao prolagodjen ciljnim grupama, gde je trenutno dominantno desktop-OS trziste.

Pominjati MS bugove je smesno, priroda razvoja softvera je takva - ja nisam video GPL paket koji nije patio od milion problema do 1.0 stable verzije (ako su neki ikad i dogurali dotle) - pa i tada su patili od mnogih propusta.

Na kraju krajeva, ne vidim ni cilj nekoj apologetici svog omiljenog OS-a... trziste je jako veliko, za 5-6 godina ce se videti ko ce imati prednost u server marketu, za desktop je gotovo sigurno, - no to ni nije preterano bitno da bi izazivalo necije emotivne reakcije, ne? :)


pa na kraju se svede na to... u principu prognoza je verovatno sledeca:
1) m$ ce drzati desktop i entry level servere (entry level je veoma sirok pojam)
2) linux ce drzati jedan deo workstation trzista, veliki deo entry level-a i pokusace proboj na midrange i enterprise (konkretno ce to uraditi ibm)
3) sun gubi na workstation trsistu i orjentise se iskljucivo na enterprise, da li ce opstati, to ce vreme pokazati
4) freebsd ce drzati mali deo entry level-a i jos manji deo enterprise-a, uglavnom onog koji je vezan za web servere, da li ce uspeti da ode dalje, zavisi mnogo od smp-a i kernel threading-a u verziji 5.x
5) netbsd ce probati proboj ka embedded-u i dalje ostati favourite non cisco router os choice... videcemo na sta ce liciti smp ekskurzija
6) openbsd ce drzati veoma mali deo trzista, dovoljan da opstane

problem sa GNU/GPL-om je konkretno u tome sto je prezasicen gomilom nepotrebnog softvera, ali ima i paketa koji su zaista evoluirali u proizvod. najveci problem u *nix svetu je vezan za borgove i sasvim pogresno shvatanje i upotrebljavanje poznatih nam operativnih sistema koji je cesto vezan za neargumentovane i subjektivne hvalospeve koji samo stete tim operativnim sistemima. poseban problem je sto kernel nekih od tih operativnih sistema lice na moje sveske iz srednje skole, ali to je vec prica za sebe...

[Ovu poruku je menjao caboom dana 29.04.2003. u 01:35 GMT]
 
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degojs

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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!29.04.2003. u 02:24 - pre 238 meseci
caboom, sto se tice predvidjanja..

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/...63,00.html?rtag=zdnetukhompage

While over half of all servers in Asia today -- low to high end -- run some flavour of Windows, expensive Unix-based computers for large businesses remain the biggest cash cow for vendors.

Despite the dominance of Unix, Windows will make inroads, especially when backed by the IA64 computing platform, he said. Windows will grab a growing slice of every IT dollar spent in Asia, and eventually overtake Unix spending beyond 2006.

Linux, despite the hype, will still remain a fringe operating system used at the edge of the data centre, said Arora, while IBM's OS/390 and OS/400 operating system, while shrinking in overall market share, will continue to be an earner for Big Blue for years to come.


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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!29.04.2003. u 02:31 - pre 238 meseci
degojs: pojednostavljujes stvari, pogotovo sto je ia64 trenutno arhitektura koju bih pozeleo samo najgorem neprijatelju... elem, laku noc... san je vazniji od toga da se ovo pretvori u jos jedan os war.
 
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degojs

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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!29.04.2003. u 02:33 - pre 238 meseci
Nisam ja pisao clanak :)
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degojs

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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!30.04.2003. u 05:05 - pre 238 meseci
Nego, u vezi command line.. k'o što rekoh, udaraju na svim frontovima po Unixu. Malo po malo i imaće sve što nisu u odnosu na Unix sisteme. S obzirom koliko kratko (opet u odnosu na *nix) su u poslu sa serverima rekao bih da rade dobar posao.

"The Windows Server 2003 family provides a significantly enhanced command-line infrastructure, letting administrators perform most management tasks without using a graphical user interface. Of special importance is the ability to perform a wide range of tasks by accessing the information store enabled by Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI). This WMI command-line (WMIC) feature provides a simple command-line interface that interoperates with existing shells and utility commands and can be easily extended by scripts or other administration-oriented applications.

Overall, the greater command-line functionality in the Windows Server 2003 family, combined with ready-to-use scripts, rivals the power of other operating systems often associated with higher cost of ownership. Administrators accustomed to using the command line to manage UNIX or Linux systems can continue managing from the command line in the Windows Server 2003 family."

http://www.microsoft.com/windo...ation/whyupgrade/top10w2k.mspx
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!30.04.2003. u 18:31 - pre 238 meseci
Da ne bude zabune, ja sam obrisao neke poruke (više od pola), jer ovo više nema nikakvog smisla.

Još jednom molim ljude koji "mrze" Microsoft da ne miniraju teme o Windows-u. Štaviše, predlažem im da ignorišu Windows forume.

Hvala.


 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!01.05.2003. u 02:20 - pre 238 meseci
obrisao si poruke vezane za pitanje provere integriteta sistema, a ne vezane za emocije prema odredjenom operativnom sistemu.

hvala na razumevanju, ili kako se to vec kaze.
 
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icon Re: Windows 2003: IIS u kernelu!!!01.05.2003. u 08:30 - pre 238 meseci
As for Web delivery, Server 2003, with the new edition of Internet Information Server (IIS), IIS 6 is much better than Microsoft's previous operating system and Web server combinations. But, IIS 6 has some of its functionality built right into the Server 2003 kernel, so you can forget about running IIS 6 on W2K or NT. IIS 5 is the end of the line for those platforms. All that said, the bottom line is that IIS 6 on Server 2003, delivers files 90% faster than IIS 5 on W2K Server, and a whopping 110% faster than NT.

A kakvi su rezultati u odnosu na neke druge OS-eve i Web servere pogledajte sami, ja ne smem da prenesem ovde posto bi dobili gomilu poruka besnih korisnika drugih OS-eva. Verovatno cu da postavim temu na advocacy ;-)



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