elitemadzone.org - The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

a1200

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 19:53 - pre 172 meseci}

Opshirniji clanak: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...18/60minutes/main6221135.shtml

Citat:

In the world of energy, the Holy Grail is a power source that's inexpensive and clean, with no emissions. Well over 100 start-ups in Silicon Valley are working on it, and one of them, Bloom Energy, is about to make public its invention: a little power plant-in-a-box they want to put literally in your backyard.

You'll generate your own electricity with the box and it'll be wireless. The idea is to one day replace the big power plants and transmission line grid, the way the laptop moved in on the desktop and cell phones supplanted landlines.

It has a lot of smart people believing and buzzing, even though the company has been unusually secretive - until now.

...

He says he knows it works because he originally invented a similar device for NASA. He really is a rocket scientist.

"This invention, working on Mars, would have allowed the NASA administrator to pick up a phone and say, 'Mr. President, we know how to produce oxygen on Mars,'" Sridhar told Stahl.

"So this was going to produce oxygen so people could actually live on Mars?" she asked.

"Absolutely," Sridhar replied.

When NASA scrapped that Mars mission, Sridhar had an idea: he reversed his Mars machine. Instead of it making oxygen, he pumped oxygen in.

He invented a new kind of fuel cell, which is like a very skinny battery that always runs. Sridhar feeds oxygen to it on one side, and fuel on the other. The two combine within the cell to create a chemical reaction that produces electricity. There's no need for burning or combustion, and no need for power lines from an outside source.

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Ivan Dimkovic

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:00 - pre 172 meseci}

Citat:

a1200
"This invention, working on Mars, would have allowed the NASA administrator to pick up a phone and say, 'Mr. President, we know how to produce oxygen on Mars,'" Sridhar told Stahl.

Ovo se vise definitivno nece desiti :)

Umesto "Mr. President" se moze upotrebiti "Mr. CEO" posto je USA odlucila da se ne bavi slanjem coveka na Mars u dogledno vreme... ako neko to bude uradio, to ce mozda biti privatna industrija, ili Mr. President, ali Kine... stednja bato :)

Citat:

He invented a new kind of fuel cell, which is like a very skinny battery that always runs. Sridhar feeds oxygen to it on one side, and fuel on the other. The two combine within the cell to create a chemical reaction that produces electricity. There's no need for burning or combustion, and no need for power lines from an outside source.

Super... jos nam samo fali da posisamo i kiseonik sa zemlje...

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey

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a1200

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:16 - pre 172 meseci}

@Ivan: Jbg, kisonik moze da se napravi sadjenjem drveca... zamisli gradove koji su puni drveca :). A kutiji treba i gorivo da bi radila, kasnije se u clanku spominje prirodni gas... kojeg dobijaju iz bioloskog djubreta. Izgleda da ceo uredjaj zaista radi... navodno ga koristi Google, eBay, FedEx i jos oko 20 kompanija :). izgleda kao vrlo ozbiljna stvar, a pritom trosi 50% manje "goriva" (gasa) nego drugi metodi proizvodnje energije.

Citat:

John Donahoe, eBay's CEO, says its five boxes were installed nine months ago and have already saved the company more than $100,000 in electricity costs.

"It's been very successful thus far. They've done what they said they would do," he told Stahl.

eBay's boxes run on bio-gas made from landfill waste, so they're carbon neutral. Donahoe took us up to the roof to show off the company's more than 3,000 solar panels. But they generate a lot less electricity than the boxes on the lawn.

"So this, on five buildings, acres and acres and acres," Stahl remarked.

"Yes. The footprint for Bloom is much more efficient," Donahoe said. "When you average it over seven days a week, 24 hours a day, the Bloom box puts out five times as much power that we can actually use."

Umesto sto daju pare na vojsku i spasavaju banke, trebali bi da ulazu malo vishe u ovakva genijalna reshenja... za cas bi im se privreda oporavila (mislim ko ne bi zeleo da zameni postojece enrgetske sisteme sa necim ovakvim, a sigurno ima i boljih ideja).

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Ivan Dimkovic

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:22 - pre 172 meseci}

Ovaj...

Kada bi svi poceli da koriste to genijalno resenje, mislim da bi nam trebalo nekoliko zemljinih povrsina za drvece koje bi napravilo taj kiseonik. Ono, tu pricamo o teravatima godisnje.

Mislim super, ali...

Ja se ipak nadam da cemo jednog dana uspeti da proizvodimo efikasno energiju fuzijom.

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a1200

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:28 - pre 172 meseci}

Ovo jeste veoma veliki napredak u odnosu na dosadasnje metode... polako, danas nesto ovako... sutra ko zna.

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Ivan Dimkovic

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:32 - pre 172 meseci}

Ma naravno, slazemo se skroz.

Sve veca cena fosilnih goriva ce samo povecavati R&D u novim izvorima energije. Nesto sto nije bilo isplativo dok je nafta bila $20 ce sigurno biti isplativo kad nafta konstantno bude preko $100 :-)

Mada, istini za volju - fakat je da je ugalj i dalje najjeftinije gorivo za proizvodnju energije, i to ce biti jos duze vreme.

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Igor Gajic

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:42 - pre 172 meseci}

@Ivan

A koliko kiseonika sprze termoelektrane na ugalj, naftu i gas ? A one cine 80% proizvodnje struje i koliko smo kiseonika potrosili ? 0.095% za zadnjih 300 godina od pocetka industrijske revolucije

Citat:

"So the total estimated industrial O2 depletion on Jan 1, 2005 would have been (35.3)/(37050)x100 = 0.095% of the preindustrial amount."
http://blogcritics.org/scitech...-levels-fall-as-carbon/page-2/

Kiseonika ima dovoljno za sledecih 10.000 godina, stopa exploatacije kiseonika je toliko mala da cemo se eventualno fizicki prilagoditi smanjenju kiseonika za 3%(racunajuci na 10.000 godina potrosnje). A dotle cemo sigurno naci neko drugo gorivo.

A sto se tice fuzije i sami naucnici koji rade na fuziji se sale sa:

Citat:

“You know the joke about fusion: Fusion is thirty years away, and always will be,” said John Perkins, a nuclear physicist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_future_of_fusion/

Na zalost problemi sa fuzijom su daleko veci nego sto se istice u medijima.

http://www.askmar.com/Robert%2...%20Trouble%20With%20Fusion.pdf

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Ivan Dimkovic

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{23.02.2010. u 20:47 - pre 172 meseci}

Problemi sa fuzijom su ogromni, to niko ne spori. U ovom momentu niko ne moze da kaze kada ce, ako ikad, fuzija biti dostupna (te price "za XYZ godina" su totalna besmislica za siroke mase, niko ne moze da predvidi tako nesto) - ali znas kako je sa naukom, otkrica se ne planiraju - vec se naprosto dese. Tako da...

Sto se "Bloom box-a" tice, ipak mislim da je pametno malo sacekati da se hype slegne i da se doticni box detaljno analizira. Super je ako funkcionise "as advertized" - ali to ipak treba proveriti.

Jedan komentar na vest:

Citat:

So, let me get this straight. This guy goes into a cave with some friends, uses the cheapest and most-common materials to solve all existing SOFC issues (i.e. density, porosity, CTE mismatch, polarization losses, sulfur poisoning, interconnect degradation, BOP resolution, etc.), then walks out nearly a decade later with oodles of VC money, gov't subsidies waiting in the wings, and so-called 'green' customers/investors foaming at the mouth? I only have one question for Bloom and its affiliates …. where is this cave, and what's the price of admission?

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FUKI
Filip Bjelobaba
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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{28.02.2010. u 17:01 - pre 172 meseci}

Neki ljudi ipak veruju da fuzija nije neresiv problem...
Projekat ITER: http://www.iter.org/default.aspx
Ovako sada izgleda gradiliste projekta: http://www.iter.org/proj/Pages/BuildingITER.aspx
Na sajtu wikipedije (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) ima dosta interesantnih stvari:
Cena:
-As of June 17, 2009, the total price of constructing the experiment is expected to be in excess of € 10 billion.
Misija:
-To momentarily produce ten times more thermal energy from fusion heating than is supplied by auxiliary heating (a Q value of 10).
Ko ucestvuje:
-Currently there are seven national and supranational parties participating in the ITER program: the European Union (EU; see Fusion for Energy), India, Japan, People's Republic of China, Russia, South Korea, and the USA.
Kad ce biti gotov:
-The reactor is expected to take nearly 10 years to build and is scheduled to be switched on in 2018

Trebace jos dosta godina nakon toga da se fuzija pocne komercijalno koristiti ali izgleda nije vise naucna fantastika.

Sto se tice Bloom Box-a videcemo, mozda je to samo reklama bez pravog proizvoda ali situacija je takva da ce u narednim decenijama nafta polako nestajati i da se traze alternative (koje ne rade SAMO na fosilna goriva).

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su27killeryu

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{01.03.2010. u 13:15 - pre 172 meseci}

Hiljadama godina ljudima nafta uopste nije trebala :)

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gajo2
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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{01.03.2010. u 13:38 - pre 172 meseci}

ITER je samo eksperimentalni fuzijski reaktor. Nakon sto konacno proradi za 30 godina, tek onda ce industrija krenuti da gradi ozbiljne elektrane na osnovu prototipa. Dakle jos jedno 40-50 godina do nekog ozbiljnijeg ucesca fuzijskih reaktora :)

Citat:

Fakat je da fuzijski reaktori vec sada postoje, ali ne mogu da ostanu aktivni duze od 1 minuta. To je zato sto se magneti koji drze plazmu se brzo sagrevaju, pa se mora naci finiji materijal itd. da se reaktor drzi u aktivnom stanju cim duze. Znaci projekat fuzijskog reaktora je sada u fazi kao sto su bili kompjuteri pre 40-50 godina. Samo treba cekati da se usavrsi vec postojeca tehnologja.

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vladd

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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{01.03.2010. u 14:48 - pre 172 meseci}

Najveci je problem sto fuzija, hladna ili topla, direktno zabija ekser u oci i naftnim magnatima i nuklearnom lobiju.

Tako da nije u pitanju naucno otkrice, nego se ceka sledecih par vekova, kada ce zaista biti besmisleni sadasnji i resursi i metode bogacenja, vladara sveta.

Tada ce biti sasvim izvesan trenutak aplikacije fuzije.

Poz

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mmix
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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{01.03.2010. u 18:03 - pre 172 meseci}

Ma, nuklearni lobi ce nastaviti da lobira za nuklarnu industriju koja ce proizvoditi opremu i licencirati fuzione reaktore, ne bojim se ja mnogo za njih

Ja sam isto kao Ivan oprezno optimistican, ovo je faza u startupu kad se dize dodatni capital i sprema IPO, tad se pricaju razne bajke i price. Pocev od tog "wireless" koncepta, ne vidim nijedan razlog zasto bi home-level mikro elektrana bila wireless sem da impresionira money-shakere. Kad vidimo jednacine i energetski bilans uredjaja, i sta su ti zeleni i crni premazi, koje si u kakve emisije iz uredjaja i koliko cena po isntalaciji moze da se optimizuje i onda ide dalja prica. Pola epizode prica o jeftinoci, a onda uredjaj ispade skoro milionce. Mozes da stavis mini verziju u kucu, ali power utility nije ugorzen jer ce da kupuje i lokalno instalira velike module, mnogo kontradikcija.

Sloba je za 12 godina promenio antropološki kod srpskog naroda. On je od jednog naroda koji je bio veseo, pomalo površan, od jednog naroda koji je bio znatiželjan, koji je voleo da vidi, da putuje, da upozna,
od naroda koji je bio kosmopolitski napravio narod koji je namršten, mrzovoljan, sumnjicav, zaplašen, narod koji se stalno nešto žali, kome je stalno neko kriv… - Z.Đinđić

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mmix
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Re: The Bloom Box,What Will the Future Hold?

^{01.03.2010. u 18:28 - pre 172 meseci}

Hm, izgleda da se neke stvari vec znaju na wikipediji

, green my ass

CH₄ + 2O₂ -> CO₂ + e^- + 2H₂O + dH

Klasika za fuelcell, trosi kiseonik i ugljovodonike, pravi ugljen dioksid i paru, samo sto to radi sa malo jefitinijim komponentama od konukrencije. Nisam odusevljen, em sto przi kiseonik, em sto emituje CO2 (da, termoelektrana emituje vise po kWh, aili to nije poenta, poenta je naci nesto sto ce emitovati drasticno manje ili nista). Isto izgleda je njegova definicija americke kuce 1kW i za to ceni $3000, a to ni bojler ne moze da povuce, nek je 10kW za prosecnu kucu, to je vec $30,000 za kucnu elektranu za koju jos uvek moras da placas plin (pa i taj zeleni iz djubrista kosta isto

) i koja traje 10 godina.

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