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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 15:40 - pre 187 meseci
- nastavak -

In 2001, two U.S. Congressmen, Tom Lantos and Edolphus Towns were "snookered" into defending an Argentine yoga school against alleged "anti-Semitic" elements (about "50 percent of those involved were of the Jewish faith"). Towns introduced a formal resolution condemning "discrimination against youga enthusiasts by the Argentine government. In the resolution he linked bombing of a Jewish center in Buenos Aires six years ago to a long pattern of Argentine anti-Semitism." As Insight on the News notes, however,

"The Congressmen may have been snookered by those accusations of anti-Semitism.
Their lofty resolution failed to mention some of the other 'practices' of the Escuela
de Yoga. According to reports, the learning center, run by a certain Juan
Percowicz, teaches lessons that are 'sui generis,' in that thye involve practices
that most people would call 'sexual freedom.' There have even been some
allegations of child exploitation, which local police were compelled to
investigate. Since its founding in the 1980s, the school has been raided
by the police more than 300 times. Other charges brought against it include
assault and petty larceny." [NICHOLS/SPUN, 12-7-01]

From Israel, in 1998, 19-year old model Linor Abargil was named "Miss World." Seven weeks earlier she had been raped at knife-point by an Israeli travel agent, Shlomo Nour. [USA TODAY, 1-20-99] "The 51st year of the Jewish state," noted the Jewish Advocate, "seems to be shaping up as the Year of the Sexual Assault. Or perhaps, more properly, the year when sexual assault is coming out of the closet. Coming out with a vengeance. In the first six months of 1998, rape was up 22% over the previous year ... Teen rape, child rape, homo-sexual rape, rape in the military, intra-family rape, we run the gamut." [MOTRO, H., p. 10] In 1999, an "expanding" sexual harassment scandal broke out in the Israeli Ministry for Religious Affairs, centering on the division's comptroller, Yehiya Paruz. [SINAI, 1999] That same year, the Los Angeles Times noted that "Long a taboo topic, or dismissed as something women simply had to put up with, sexual harassment in the [Israeli] military is now openly discussed in Israel, thanks to high-profile cases, new rules and a handful of crusading activists. More and more women are coming forward to denounce abuse." [WILKINSON, T., 12-1-99, p. A1]

In 2000, the head of the Defense Ministry's publishing unit, Amnon Tzabari, was charged with sexual harassment for "performing lewd acts on four female workers in his office." This followed disciplinary actions against "long-time ministry spokesman" Dan Weinrich and, in a separate case, the head of the Defense Ministry's media section, Shachar Halevi. "The situation became so bad," noted the Jerusalem Post, "that ministry Director-General Arno Yam gathered all senior officials and warned he was going to uproot the phenomenon." [O'SULLIVAN, A., 9-8-2000] In 2001, a parliamentary aide to Israeli MK (member of Knessset/Parliament) Ayoub Kara publicly accused him or raping her. Ayoub is Prime Minister Sharon's "liason to Israeli Arabs." [JERUSALEM POST, 2-28-01] In 2000, Israel's Transport Minister, Yitzhak Mordechai, "who deputizes for [Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Barak in his absence, suspended himself pending an investigation into accustions that he sexually assaulted a female civil servant." [REEVES, P., 3-8-00] In 2001, the director general of the Israel Journalists' Union, Tuvya Sa'ar, was "arrested on suspicion of having intercourse with a minor and coercing her for sexual favors ... In one instance ... he is suspected of promising the girl an appearance on the TV channel for children because of his connections there." Sa'ar is the former director of Israel TV. [ARBELI, A., 8-15-01] Along these general themes, see also historical Jewish pre-eminence in the international prostition trade, and Jewish dominance of the pornography business (in the Mass Media chapter]

Another ethical in-house controversy in the Jewish organizational community -- in this case, involving environmental morality -- arose in Houston when Charles Hurwitz, a UJA-Federation official, was noted for his role as a majority stockholder in Maxxam, the company that owns Pacific Lumber which environmentalists were fighting for its plans to cut down some of the last remaining old growth Redwood trees on private land in California. As Benjamin Stein notes, "Charles Hurwitz's catastrophic takeover of Pacific Lumber.... resulted in some of the worst environmental atrocities of all time against first-growth redwood trees." [STEIN, B., p. 114]

Hurwitz's Maxxam rules over 110 subsidiaries, including Kaiser Aluminum, McCullough Oil, and Simplicity Patterns. By 1999, Hurwitz had spent $20 million defending himself against two Federal agencies, government lawsuits that charged that "Texas billionaire Charles Hurwitz bought Kaiser Aluminum with money made while illegally driving a savings and loan into bankruptcy." Hurwitz had purchased United Savings of Texas in 1984, "raided it for cash," and then let it fail in "reckless disregard for the law." The failure cost U.S. taxpayers $1.6 billion. [STEELE, K. D., 10-31-99, p. A1]

In 1999, environmentalists created an activist alliance against Maxxam with a steelworker union which had begun a strike against Kaiser. "I don't think there's a corporation anywhere else in the U.S. that's at the epicenter of so many social issues as Maxxam," said steelworker union official David Foster. [BORRESON, S., 1-3-2000]

Then there is David Koch. Koch heads Koch Industries,

"a conglommerate with major oil and gas holdings, [which] is the second-largest
privately-held company in the United States. It is also the recipient of the largest civil
fine ever imposed on a corporation for violating federal environmental laws. During
the 1990s, the company's leaky pipelines were responsible for more than 300 oil spills
in five states ... Last fall, Koch Industries and four employees were indicted on 97
counts of violating federal clean air and hazardous waste laws. Government
prosecutors accuse the company of intentionally releasing fumes from benzene
-- a suspected carcinogen -- into the atmosphere and then lying about it to state
regulators in Texas. If convicted, the company could be fined up to $352 million." [MOTHER JONES, 5-3-01]

Samuel Heyman owns 98% of the giant manufacturing firm GAF. As Mother Jones magazine noted about the company:

"Last year, if the Asbestos Compensation Act had passed Congress, Heyman would
have profited handsomely from his anonymity. The bill -- drafted by a Harvard law
professor hired by GAF -- would have denied or delayed compensation to thousands
of victims of asebestos-related diseases, cost tax-payers as much as $150 million
a year, and provided 'unwarranted benefits to asbestos companies,' according
to the U. S. Justice Department. As a former manufacturer of asbestos-laden
building products, GAF found itself in a crushing legal avalanche.' [MOTHER
JONES, 5-3-01]

Likewise, in the pantheon of prominent Jewish organization leaders, there was the case of (the Jewish) Moment magazine's "donor of the month," Bernie Marcus, for his donation of $15 million to the Atlanta UJA fundraising campaign. Marcus, the CEO of Home Depot, only weeks earlier lost an Oakland jury verdict of $1.6 million in damages against his company for "sexual discrimination and retaliation." A class action lawsuit for $65 million also was settled against Home Depot for sex discrimination. [ARON, M.] "A trustee-for-life of the Atlanta Jewish Federation," notes Mother Jones magazine,

"Marcus says he has integrated Judaic principles into what he likes to call the
'Home Depot family.' For him, helping people understand Judaism is a matter
of marketing. 'I think a lot of it has to do with selling,' he says, 'You've got
to sell the beauties of Judaism." [MOTHER JONES, 5-3-01]

In March 1998, the head of the World Jewish Congress, Edgar Bronfman, also president and CEO of the family-controlled Seagram and Universal Studios, was awarded a conspicuously dubious honor (the Seagram fortune was built to power by the Bronfmans during prohibition, with considerable collusion with Detroit's criminal Jewish Purple Gang who smuggled alcohol over to Windsor). "A bipartisan political group," noted the Financial Times of London,

"launched a new campaign aimed at embarrassing one of the leading
lights of the entertainment business. The first ever "Silver Sewer' award,
in recognition of its 'outrageous contribution to the degradation and
coarsening of our culture and its unswerving dedication to the pursuit
of profit above principle' [was awarded in abstentia to Bronfman]."
[BAKER, G., 3-21-98, p. 2]

Of particular note to the judges was the Bronfman ownership and promotion of the decadent The Jerry Springer [who is Jewish] Show on television and Marilyn Manson, "perhaps the most shocking of the 'shock rock' groups." William Bennett, a former cabinet member in the Reagan and Bush White Houses, decried Seagrams as "the leading perpetrators of cultural rot" in America. [BAKER, G., 3-21-98, p. 2] Seagrams is noteworthy for many dubious honors, including the fact that in 1997 it "started airing TV commercials for its Crown Royal Whiskey in scattered markets across the United States. The commercials broke a voluntary ban on television advertising that the liquor companies had imposed on themselves in 1948." [FINANCIAL TIMES, 4-7-97] [More about the Bronfmans and Springer later]

In 2001, Irv Rubin, head of the Jewish Defense League, and an associate, Earl Krugel, were arrested by the FBI for plotting to bomb the Los Angeles King Fahd Mosque and the office of Arab-American Congressmen Darrell Issa. [DEUTSCH, L., 12-12-01]

In 1997, the United Jewish Appeal went out of its way to shame the Jewish community by awarding its "Humanitarian of the Year" award to (non-Jewish) media mogul Rupert Murdoch at a fund-raising dinner that raised $2.3 million for the organization. Mother Jones magazine wondered about the surreal moral reasoning behind the award: "The media baron is better known to labor and human rights groups for his union-busting and for catering to the Chinese government (in 1994 he yanked the BBC off his Asian satellite network because officials in Beijing were angered by its reporting on Chinese human rights violations)." [MJ, 9/10-97, p. 18]

"By what criteria has the UJA chosen the worldwide robber baron for this years' award over, say, Radovan Karadzic [accused of war crimes in Bosnia], or perhaps Larry Flynt [the pornographer]?" wondered Eric Alterman in the Nation, "... Murdoch was chosen, the UJA says, for his 'longtime support of the security of the state of Israel, his friendship for the Jewish people, and his support of UJA.'" [ALTERMAN, p. 6-7] The Australian-born Murdoch had earlier been honored in 1982 as the "Communications Man of the Year" by the American Jewish Congress. He was presented that award by AJC president Howard Squadron, who was also Murdoch's American lawyer, his guide to visit right-wing politician Ariel Sharon in Israel, and an opinion page writer for Murdoch's New York Post. [GOLDSTEIN, T, p. 69; KIERNAN, T., 1986, p. 262] "The Jewish national cause is one that is extremely important to me, to my family, and to my company," Murdoch told the UJA audience, "... We're also in Israel [Murdoch has investments there] because of my faith in the integrity and worthiness of the Zionist undertaking. I have been accused of being pro-Israel, pro-Zionist, pro-Jewish -- charges to which I plead guilty." [LEON, M., 7-4-97, p. 16]

Matti Golan, a former Israeli government official, calls the massive American Jewish organizational ring to raise money for itself and Israel the "Money Machine." American Jews, notes Golan, have

"created a ruthless, well-oiled machine whose only aim is to collect
money and ... will do anything to do so. Every year [American Jewish
leaders get] a higher quota to meet and ... stop at nothing to meet it.
If you can't meet your quota, you're out. The only gauge of success,
the one bottom line, is how many dollars you've brought in."
[GOLAN, p. 65]

In 1999, Jewish billionaire Henry Samueli was presented an award by a prominent Jewish American organization. As the Los Angeles Times noted this honor,

"The Orange County chapter of the American Jewish Committee will
present him with its National Human Relations Award ... He's happy
to be honored, Samueli said, but he was surprised to find out that a
donation to the Committee was part of the package." [CONWAY, A.,
4-13-99, p. E1]

Even Alan Dershowitz concedes that "Jewish organizations sometimes honor the wealthy without inquiry into the sources of their wealth. We sometimes do not make the effort to see what is plainly before our eyes. We are blinded by the facade of money ... " [DERSHOWITZ, Chutzpah, p. 307]

This worldview, so common in the Jewish community, was heralded as an emulative value for Americans at-large in 1995 by a Jewish professor at the University of Chicago, Daniel Fischel, who espoused it -- not surprisingly -- in his book, Payback: The Conspiracy to Destroy Michael Milken and His Financial Revolution, published prominently by HarperCollins. Fischel's introductory paragraph to begin his defense of Milken's vast corruption machine deserves to be quoted in full, as sum of both his book and a widespread moral vacuousness so much at stake here:

"Why have the 1980s been so uniformly condemned as the 'decade of
greed?' For that matter, what does this disparaging characteristic even
mean? The decade's many critics who pontificate against evils of greed
have seen no need to define the term. Dictionary definitions of greed --
'inordinate desire for wealth' or 'wanting more than one's proper share' --
provide no help but merely restate the question. What is 'inordinate
desire for wealth, or the dividing line between one's 'proper' or
'improper' share? With no answers to these questions, how can we
possibly know when an individual, let alone a whole country, is guilty of
'greed?' And even if we could somehow identify 'greedy' behavior, why
should we care?" [FISCHEL, p. 1]


ceo tekst na: http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/22wallst.htm
 
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:00 - pre 187 meseci
www.jewishtribalreview.org

Citat:

A compilation of links to online articles largery from mainstream media sources about Jewish and Zionist influence in popular culture


WOW!

Ocekujem da ce uskoro da se nadje i koji citat iz Mein Kampf-a :) I ti meni kazes da se pravim blesav...

Meni samo nije jasno zasto od svih zemalja U SRBIJI da se zapati verovanje u ove gluposti? U Srbiji nikada nije zivelo puno Jevreja niti smo imali bas puno posla sa njima iskreno (osim sto smo iznajmili njihov vojni satelit da pravi fotke po Kosovu pa posle nismo hteli da platimo ;-) pa da se tu nadje neki razlog za ovo...

Mislim kontam zasto se u Rusiji potencira ova propaganda (cela ta "cionisticka" teorija je upravo potekla odatle) - ali Srbija? Mislim, ne znam da li je ono "videla zaba da se konj potkiva, pa bi i ona" ili nesto jos gore

:(

DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:03 - pre 187 meseci
Čekaj da razjasnimo jednu stvar! Onako neobavezno u post si ubacio " jeste da je direktor FED-a poreklom jevrejin " - a ja te pitam da li su skoro sve investicione banke u USA u rukama jevreja?
 
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žutokljunac

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:07 - pre 187 meseci
Nemoj da optužuješ, da me etiketiraš da sam ovakav ili onakav, nego odgovori.
Nisam mrzitelj jevreja, naprotiv. ( ako mi to prebacuješ )
 
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:07 - pre 187 meseci
Nope, investicione banke svakako nisu "u rukama Jevreja" - to sto se cesto Jevreji nalaze na rukovodecim polozajima u mnogim bankama samo reflektuje nesto drugo - ali tesko da ima veze sa vlasnistvom.

Na kraju krajeva, investicione banke su stvar proslosti - one koje nisu propale su se pretvorile u sasvim drugacije institucije u proteklih nekoliko meseci - tako da ta teorija o "Jevrejima kao majstorima novca" u tom slucaju svakako ne bi pila vodu :)

Citat:

Nemoj da optužuješ, da me etiketiraš da sam ovakav ili onakav, nego odgovori.
Nisam mrzitelj jevreja, naprotiv. ( ako mi to prebacuješ )


Citiras sajtove koji se bave "cionistima" - ne znam, ja tebe licno ne optuzujem ni za sta, samo mogu da primetim da su takvi izvori kredibilni bas kao i Mein Kampf, a vrlo verovatno imaju identicnu motivaciju.

Sta ti licno mislis o svemu tome, pojma nemam - ali samo mogu da vidim da verujes vrlo opasnoj propagandi.
DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
http://www.digicortex.net/node/1 Videos: http://www.digicortex.net/node/17 Gallery: http://www.digicortex.net/node/25
PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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Laki_Gen
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:08 - pre 187 meseci
http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-E...during-Holocaust/dp/0674021754
Only 23.96
Buy two books, and get FREE Kalashnikov Gun!!!!

Direktore banke - skidaj gace, interesuje nas dal' si Jevrej!
 
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žutokljunac

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:16 - pre 187 meseci
Ne samo da se nalaze na rukovodećim položajima, / i da naravno - donose sve odluke o tokovima novca /, već su oni i osnivači i vlasnici. Ne znam čemu taj trud da me ubediš u suprotno.
 
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p3j4
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 16:55 - pre 187 meseci
Zutokljunac, pustimo sada Jevreje, po meni sustina problema lezi u necem drugom.

Sve ovo sto se danas desava u Americi je samo posledica, posto je kapitalizam kao sistem pogresan iz prostog razloga zato sto polazi od pogresne pretpostavke, a to je - beskonacan rast!

Amerika je u tom pogresnom sistemu dostigla najvece visine, jer je imala najbrzi rast, ali ce isto tako neminovno imati i najveci pad. Pad ce mozda moci da odloze neko vreme, sto trenutno i pokusavaju (a i to im nije prvi put - setimo se kako je i pocela hipotekarna kriza), ali pad je neminovan!

Da se vratim sada na temu beskonacnog rasta...

Posto je danasnja mera rasta GDP, kako izgleda funkcija rasta BDP-a kroz vreme? Raste eksponencijalno.
Evo i par linkova:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_70

Dakle, ukoliko postoji stabilna stopa rasta GDP-a kroz vreme, on raste eksponencijalno. Klasican primer za to je primer rasta svetske populacije:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...mons/b/b7/Population_curve.svg

Dakle, prica o stabilnom rastu iz godine u godinu GDP-a, naseg standarda, nasih plata, kupovne moci itd. izgleda vrlo lepo i bajkovito, medjutim ima jedan ozbiljan problem - svetski resursi nisu neograniceni i sto brze rastemo, brze ih trosimo, a rastemo eksponencijalno!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...orld_GDP_Capita_1-2003_A.D.png

Posto je vise nego jasno da GDP nece moci da raste beskonacno, postavlja se onda pitanje - pa sta i ako BDP prestane da raste? Dostigli smo odredjeni (visoki) nivo standarda i razvoja, i recimo da nam i ne treba vise, u cemu je problem? Problem je sto u tome sto da bismo zadrzali postojeci zivotni standard BDP mora da raste konstantno, jer ako on ne raste, onda ulazimo u recesiju. Dakle, rast GDP-a zavisi pre svega od toga koliko jako potrosacno drustvo imamo, pa zato sada na prve znake recesije FED i evropska centralna banka snizavaju referentne kamatne stope kako bi upravo potakli potrosnju u drustvu (samim tim i trosenje resursa) jer radna mesta, a i kompletna ekonomija zavisi od toga - potrosnje! Vidite sta se desava sa auto industrijom u SAD. Smanjena traznja za automobilima uzrokuje gubitke za proizvodjace, a za radnike gubitak radnih mesta. Prica se da sa propascu GM 2.5 miliona ljudi koji su povezani sa tom industrijom moze ostati bez posla!

Ako za sada zanemarimo zavisnost postojece ekonomije od potrosnje, i pretpostavimo da ukoliko GDP bude 0% nece doci do propasti ekonomije opet necemo moci da zadrzimo postojeci (visok) standard bez rasta GDP-a. Razlog je jednostavan - ukoliko nas GDP ne raste, raste javni DUG drzava, koji danas svaka od drzava pokriva rastom svog GDP-a. Postavlja se pitanje sta ce biti kada GDP iz ociglednih razloga ne bude vise mogao da raste, i KOME su onda nasa jos nerodjena deca i unuci duzni trilione dolara odmah po rodjenju???

Nisam pobornik teorija zavere, ali ovako kad covek logicno sagleda cinjenice mora sebi da postavi neka pitanja i duboko pocne da sumnja u ljude koji zestoko brane sistem ovakav kakav je...
Internet forumi su kao javni toalet... udje ko želi, ispiša se gde poželi, i ode...
 
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Horvat

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 17:39 - pre 187 meseci
@zutokljunac 1.mogao si to lepo zakaciti u atachment,a ne u 5-6 poruka siriti
2.i ako jesu [a iskreno to me bas i ne zanima] zidovi vlasnici svih banaka i osnivaci i sta ti ja znam,da li su samim tim i APSOLUTNO SVI zidovi na svetu vlasnici?krivci?...

da je xy nacionalnosti neki bi se busali u prsa i govorili "to je nas,vide ti sta nas ume? poseduje citav svet,zemo moj"...


hajde opet da pitam,koliko je do sada [i kome] americka vlada dala pomoc iz federalnih rezervi i kako se to odrazilo na zdravstvo/skolstvo i slicno [poljit'cari ne sumnjam da su obezbedjeni]
 
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Skaarj
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 18:05 - pre 187 meseci
Citat:
Horvat:
hajde opet da pitam,koliko je do sada [i kome] americka vlada dala pomoc iz federalnih rezervi i kako se to odrazilo na zdravstvo/skolstvo i slicno [poljit'cari ne sumnjam da su obezbedjeni]


To ne moze niko sa sigurnoscu da odgovori jer se tacni podaci cuvaju u strogoj tajnosti. Spekulise se da je US Treasury preuzeo obaveze vredne 2,7 triliona USD.
Pre dva dana su spasli Citi od sigurne propasti tako sto su ima dali 20mlrd USD i garantovali za 306mlrd USD njihovih obaveza.
 
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Horvat

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 18:41 - pre 187 meseci
pu jbte, je l parira sa finansiranjem rata u iraku?

a ovaj drugi deo,kako se odrazava na institucije koje zivot znace?
 
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Skaarj
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 19:28 - pre 187 meseci
Za rat u Iraku da sada je zvanicno odboreno oko 300mlrd USD (mozda i nesto vise nisam pratio u poslednje vreme) a procene su da je do sada zapravo kosta oko 1 bilion usd. Tako da je rat u Iraku u sustini sitan trosak u odnosu na sve ostalo.

Koliko sam citao ukupne obaveze Amerike prema javnim sluzbama (socijalno, zdravstveno...) su negde oko 40tak biliona usd (mada sam citao procene da je to blize cifri od 60tak biliona usd). Drugim recima da je u pitanju bilo koja druga drzava odavno bi morala da proglasi bankrot.

Prema izjavama novozibranog predsednika moze se ocekivati jos veci deficit sledecih godina jer ce se ici na masovne stimulanse ekonomije (pominje se cifra od oko 530mlrd USD) kroz pomoc nezaposlenima, smanjenje poreza i kojesta drugo.

Pitanje je kako oni to mogu sebi da prisute? Pa ne mogu ali nemaju izbora, cilj je spreciti deflaciju i to po svaku cenu jer kazu da bi deflacija dovela do kraha nevidjenih razmera.

Ko to finansira? Za sada su najveci kreditori Kina, Arapi, Japanci i jos poneko, jer time prakticno pokusavaju da odrze tziste da nastavi da kupuje njihove proizvode (i odrzavaju nade da ce ogromme kolicine duga koji poseduju kad tad biti isplacene). Problem ce da nastane kada skontaju da to vise nema smisla, e onda ce da bude cupavo.


edit:
Izmenjena imena jedinica mere da odgovaraju ovdasnjem nacinu obelezavanja (US trilion = nas bilion)

[Ovu poruku je menjao Skaarj dana 26.11.2008. u 21:02 GMT+1]
 
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Laki_Gen
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 19:40 - pre 187 meseci
Citat:
Skaarj: Za rat u Iraku da sada je zvanicno odboreno oko 300mlrd USD (mozda i nesto vise nisam pratio u poslednje vreme) a procene su da je do sada zapravo kosta oko 1trilion usd. Tako da je rat u Iraku u sustini sitan trosak u odnosu na sve ostalo.

Koliko sam citao ukupne obaveze Amerike prema javnim sluzbama (socijalno, zdravstveno...) su negde oko 40tak triliona usd (mada sam citao procene da je to blize cifri od 60tak triliona usd). Drugim recima da je u pitanju bilo koja druga drzava odavno bi morala da proglasi bankrot.

Prema izjavama novozibranog predsednika moze se ocekivati jos veci deficit sledecih godina jer ce se ici na masovne stimulanse ekonomije (pominje se cifra od oko 530mlrd USD) kroz pomoc nezaposlenima, smanjenje poreza i kojesta drugo.

Pitanje je kako oni to mogu sebi da prisute? Pa ne mogu ali nemaju izbora, cilj je spreciti deflaciju i to po svaku cenu jer kazu da bi deflacija dovela do kraha nevidjenih razmera.

Ko to finansira? Za sada su najveci kreditori Kina, Arapi, Japanci i jos poneko, jer time prakticno pokusavaju da odrze tziste da nastavi da kupuje njihove proizvode (i odrzavaju nade da ce ogromme kolicine duga koji poseduju kad tad biti isplacene). Problem ce da nastane kada skontaju da to vise nema smisla, e onda ce da bude cupavo.


Ovo si sve naucio u Mikijevom Zabavniku? Trilioni, bilioni, milijarde... Jel' procitas ti sta napises ili se frljas ciframa - onako po slobodnom nahodjenju, ovde milijarda, onde milion?!
Vecu glupost u zivotu nisam procitao.
 
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Ivan Dimkovic

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 19:46 - pre 187 meseci
Citat:

Koliko sam citao ukupne obaveze Amerike prema javnim sluzbama (socijalno, zdravstveno...) su negde oko 40tak triliona usd (mada sam citao procene da je to blize cifri od 60tak triliona usd). Drugim recima da je u pitanju bilo koja druga drzava odavno bi morala da proglasi bankrot.


"obaveze prema javnim sluzbama" se uvek placaju iz poreza a zdravstveno iz zdravstvenog osiguranja, a kako Amerika i dalje ima najveci GDP na svetu te obaveze se za sada ispunjavaju. Bice gusto onda kada im populacija ostari, ali nije bas da USA ima lose prospekte po tom pitanju u odnosu na mnoge druge zapadne zemlje (Nemacka, Holandija) i Japan. Cak i Srbija gore stoji po tom pitanju :(

Amerikanci bar imaju crnce i latinose a i one radikalne hriscane, i svi oni imaju vrlo zdrav prirodni prirastaj, koji ce pomoci servisiranju penzija i zdravstvene nege za penzionere. Mnoge druge drzave nemaju tu pogodnost.

Americki javni dug je, takodje, u odnosu na GDP relativno visok ali daleko od toga da je van kontrole - postoji nekoliko razvijenih zemalja sa vecim javnim dugom u odnosu na GDP - ne treba se osvrtati na apsolutne cifre vec na cifre u odnosu na GDP. Mislim to je kao da poredis domacinstvo sa $1000 mesecnim primanjima i domacinstvo sa $100000 mesecnim primanjima - jasno je da ce ovo drugo biti u stanju da finansira mnogo veci kredit od prvog.

Takodje, zaduzenost Amerikanaca (dug pojedinaca i firmi prema bankama) jeste veliki, ali - nisu najgori, ima isto tako nekoliko razvijenih zemalja koje su po tom pitanju gore - ako nista drugo, Amerikanci i dalje imaju ogromno interno trziste sa istim jezikom, tako da nisam bas uplasen za odrzivost njihove ekonomije.
DigiCortex (ex. SpikeFun) - Cortical Neural Network Simulator:
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PowerMonkey - Redyce CPU Power Waste and gain performance! - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
 
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Skaarj
Novi Sad

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 20:11 - pre 187 meseci
@Laki_Gen

Prvo hajde malo da citas (makar imikijev zabavnik) pre nego sto pocnes da se pravis pametan. Ovako covek stekne utisak da postujes samo da bi povecao broj postova. Ali da pokazem da sam dobre volje dacu ti par linkova pa se obrazuj:

300mlrd USD (mozda i nesto vise nisam pratio u poslednje vreme) a procene su da je do sada zapravo kosta oko 1bilion usd
http://www.motherjones.com/interview/2007/03/joseph_stiglitz.html

40tak biliona usd (mada sam citao procene da je to blize cifri od 60tak biliona usd
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-12-debt

pominje se cifra od oko 530mlrd USD
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/PO...nsition.wrap/?iref=mpstoryview ali googlaj jos economy stimulus obama pa citaj

A za deflaciju i uticaj na USA ekonomiju malo proguglaj sam.



edit:
Izmenjena imena jedinica mere da odgovaraju ovdasnjem nacinu obelezavanja (US trilion = nas bilion)

[Ovu poruku je menjao Skaarj dana 26.11.2008. u 21:01 GMT+1]
 
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Laki_Gen
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 20:28 - pre 187 meseci
Nigde se ne spominje cifra od 530 milijardi:
Citat:
Estimates for how much might be spent on a multiple-year stimulus package range as high as $500 billion to $700 billion. At the center of the plan are investments in the nation's roads, bridges, schools and alternative-energy infrastructure. Obama has said his plan will lead to the creation of 2.5 million jobs.

Ovo je Obamino predizborno obecanje (necu da kazem lazno) i kakve to veze ima sa bilo cim? Bailout je nesto drugo.
Investicije, sta je tu uopste sporno? Od kada to investicije drzave dovode do deflacije???
Kako ce oni to za'ebati Kineze i Japance? Ovi kupili obveznice, pa Ameri devalviraju dolar, Japanci na gubitu. Aha. U pricama. Pogledaj kretanje kursa dolara za proteklih godinu dana.

Stiglic?? On je bas poznat po tome sto "voli" Busha i administraciju.
Koliko su tacno novca potrosili? "300 milijardi, ali pricaju ljudi i do 800-900"... Ovo bas ima smisla.

Video necu ni da komentarisem. Vec su se pojavljivali slicni tumaci (sa istog sajta) na drugim temema....

P.S. Moram.
Ono sa kucama je vrhunsko. Gleda ovaj video, tamo neki John iz Arizone i kada vidi da ce ziveti u blatnjari za 10 godina, svasta mu moze pasti na pamet :-)
Na snimu se govori o inflaciji koja ce pojesti vrednost, nemam pojma otkud tebi ovo sa deflacijom. Implikacije su mu vrhunske. Ja sam shvatio da cemo postati robovi da cemo svi u buducnosti raditi kao crnci za camce pirinca i parce hleba. Samo zato sto su nasi roditelji uzimali kredite koji nisu bili tzv. samootplacujuci (zaboravio sam tacan naziv). Dobra je i fora sa totalnim dugom od 342%GDP-a. Istu stavku sabira na obe strane. Vjerovatno je iz racunovodstva ucio o 2T kontima.

Ako hoces da diskutujes cinjenicama, nauci ih. Ovo "pakovanje" istine je sramotno. Sto je najgrdje od svega, ljudi se primaju na to. Kao onaj lik sto usavrsava hladnu fuziju.

[Ovu poruku je menjao Laki_Gen dana 25.11.2008. u 21:47 GMT+1]
 
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Skaarj
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 21:06 - pre 187 meseci
Cifra od 530mlrd se pominje u jednom drugom clanku od pre nekoliko dana. Istina je da niko ne zna kolika ce ta suma biti na kraju. Pre mesec dana pominjano je nesto oko 300mlrd a sada su cifre mnogo vece. Makar sam pogodio raspon zar ne?

Investicije drzave su tu da sprece deflaciju, kako sam i napisao ranije.

Sto se Stiglica tice covek je ponudio argumente, mozes da se slazes sa njima ili ne ali makar procitaj to sto pise tamo pa donesi svoj sud. Ovako je smesno da diskvalifikujes ono sto nisi ni procitao.

Bilo bi lepo sa tvoje stane da nam ponudis neko tumacenje situacije posto vidim da si pronikao u sustinu jer tvrdis da sve sto sam naveo nije tacno.
 
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Laki_Gen
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 21:28 - pre 187 meseci
Jedno je raspon, drugo su precizni podaci. Tesko je racunati u rasponima.

To sto ti tvrdis je samo prepricano stivo raznih likova koji pakuju cinjenice onako kako njima odogvara - za konkretan cilj. Meni je licno muka kada vidim kako ljudi nasjedaju na tzv. genijalce koji uzmu par ekonomskih termina, nekoliko podataka i onda stvore novu istinu. Jos i sire tu pricu, upakovanu u foliju svjetske zavjere i Jevreja (ili bilo koga-cega drugog) kao krivaca.
Na to nemam drugi odgovor, nego da ljudi uzmu (u ovom slucaju) Osnove ekonomije i da procitaju sta tamo pise, kako ne bi padali na jeftine fore.
Bespredmetno je neke stvari ponavljati 100 puta. Na srecu, tu je Dimkovic i Co koji se nikad ne umore od pisanja istih stvari. Kao da imaju misiju, da ubjedjuju neverne Tome.

 
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žutokljunac

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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 21:53 - pre 187 meseci
... kaže se nevjerne Tome.
 
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Skaarj
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icon Re: Amerika (ni)je (vise) Amerika ?25.11.2008. u 22:15 - pre 187 meseci
Citat:
Jedno je raspon, drugo su precizni podaci. Tesko je racunati u rasponima.

Naravno pozurio si da cifre koje sam naveo povezes sa Mikijevim zabavnikom. Sad kad vidis da su prilicno realne onda ti je tesko racunati u rasponima.

Citat:
To sto ti tvrdis je samo prepricano stivo raznih likova koji pakuju cinjenice onako kako njima odogvara - za konkretan cilj. Meni je licno muka kada vidim kako ljudi nasjedaju na tzv. genijalce koji uzmu par ekonomskih termina, nekoliko podataka i onda stvore novu istinu. Jos i sire tu pricu, upakovanu u foliju svjetske zavjere i Jevreja (ili bilo koga-cega drugog) kao krivaca.


Moras malo da se opustis. Kakav konkretan cilj? Zavere? O cemu ti pricas? To ja pomenuo nisam.

Mene u celoj situaciji zanima da sagledam realno stanje, da bih pokusao da odreagujem na odgovarajuci nacin. CFO firme u kojoj radim je poslao cirkular pre neki mesec prilicno sumornog tona. Zato sam se zainteresovao za situaciju cisto da pokusam da planiram dalje. Najvise bih voleo da se situacija rascisti sto pre i da kriza potraje jos par meseci i da svi onda nastavimo dalje u svetlu budcnost (da se malo posluzim parolama proslosti). Na zalost, stvari o kojima citam ne slute bas na brz hepi end.

Citat:
Na to nemam drugi odgovor, nego da ljudi uzmu (u ovom slucaju) Osnove ekonomije i da procitaju sta tamo pise, kako ne bi padali na jeftine fore.
Bespredmetno je neke stvari ponavljati 100 puta. Na srecu, tu je Dimkovic i Co koji se nikad ne umore od pisanja istih stvari. Kao da imaju misiju, da ubjedjuju neverne Tome.

Nikom ne treba knjiga iz ekonomije da vidi da su vesti lose sa svih strana i da stvari koje Ben i Hank pokusavaju da urade ne daju rezultate kakve su ocekivali (po njihovim sopstvenim recima) i da ce kriza potrajati duze nego sto je prvobitno prognozirano.

I zato ja pitam sve ovde kako vide situaciju? Kakave su prognoze prema izvorima kojima raspolazete?
 
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