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Nisu samo kina i brazil

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Dejan Lozanovic
Dejan Lozanovic
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icon Nisu samo kina i brazil10.05.2005. u 21:09 - pre 230 meseci
Pazi sad kada i bogatije zemlje razmisljaju da treba smanjiti windows na sto je moguce vecu meru.

http://www.tes.co.uk/2094985

Znaci u buducnosti sekretarice ce lepo znati da rade i sa drugim non windows sistemima :)
 
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degojs

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil10.05.2005. u 23:42 - pre 230 meseci
A šta na to sve kaže šef Linspire, Michael Robertson?


May/05/05

Why It's A Mistake For Brazil To Build Their Own Linux


Over the last year, several government organizations such as Brazil, China and the City of Munich have stated their intentions to build a version of desktop Linux. While their motivations are understandable, I think an examination of history illustrates that it's an unwise decision and there's a better path to achieve their goals.

Read about Linux and the Brazilian Government

Government officials I speak to routinely express exasperation with Microsoft's pricing inflexibility. Even in emerging markets with reduced capacity to pay for software, Microsoft prices software at similar rates to the United States. Governments want to create environments where intellectual property is respected (read: where their citizens pay for software, music, and movies). But when incomes are a fraction of the United States, the undeniable realities are that businesses are forced to pirate as a simple matter of economic survival. Additionally, because Microsoft uses proprietary formats, switching to other software becomes difficult, if not impossible, so endless upgrades and maintenance are forced upon them.

At the same time, the non-stop pounding of hacker attacks on Microsoft software creates considerable support costs and worrisome national security issues. Weekly patches, virus services and periodic reformatting/cleansing of machines add significant costs to government organizations. Of more concern is the security risk that critical government data will be leaked out. Whether from sloppy programming that hackers exploit or from intentional or even unintentional back doors inserted into the software, there's a real concern that national security is at risk by depending on Microsoft software.

With this backdrop it's understandable that progressive countries are looking for alternatives and several have announced they intend to build their own Linux distribution. They absolutely should insist on open standards from all software vendors so they can avoid vendor lock-in. Having the ability to switch improves bargaining leverage and ensures competitive pricing, but creating their own nationally branded Linux product will actually cost them more and leave them with an inferior product in the long run.

I think there's an expensive lesson to be learned from airlines. There was a time last century where nearly every country thought they needed their own national airline. Politicians spoke of airlines as strategically important and a national security imperative (much like they are talking about operating systems and software now). Approximately 190 state-owned airlines were created. The vast majority of those airlines have been economic disasters with total losses well into the hundreds of billions of dollars. Over time, these countries realized that commercial companies could provide a much higher level of service at a lower price. By 1985, 130 states recognized their mistake and had announced plans to privatize their airlines, and more countries such as Hungary's Malev, Italy's Alitalia, Brazil's Varig, Greece's Olympic, and Poland's LOT are struggling trying to keep their national airlines afloat. Even sophisticated and rich governments like the U.S. and Switzerland are routinely bailing out airline companies with tax dollars costing billions of dollars. Meanwhile, low-cost carriers with no government backing are performing well, reinforcing the point that the free market can deliver services much more cost effectively than a state-sponsored institution.


Read why China is embracing Linux

The same national furor that created massive money losing airlines is pushing a few countries like China and Brazil to explore their own software entities. Countries are desperate for an alternative, but Microsoft's successful business tactics, legal or illegal, have vanquished other options. However, the best way to ensure quality products at a fair price is to reinvigorate competition by supporting some of the commercial companies like Novell, Mandriva and yes, Linspire.

Building your own country-specific Linux operating is an illogical decision in an era when privatization of government services is almost universally recognized to deliver superior results. If the goal is to end up with affordable software options, commercial companies, which can spread costs across many countries, will produce a much higher quality product at a significantly lower price. It's important to note that building a capable desktop software product requires an army of people - not just a few programmers. It's imperative to have quality assurance personnel to test products; field engineers who can partner with companies like AMD, Intel, Via, ATI, Nvidia to insure compatibility; certification teams to interface with OEMs (computer manufacturers) to enable them to ship fully functioning computers; and support personnel who will need to be trained on the product and offer end user deployment, support and maintenance, and constant, ongoing development will be required to support the wave of never ending products and technologies. Each country having their own personnel will make software more expensive than it needs be.

Governments who feel the need to create their own operating system, should, using this same logic, want to have their own automobile factories, apparel manufacturing plants, telecom companies, microprocessor fabricators, and so on. Governments tried to prop up many of these industries in the past. History has shown time and again that these well-intentioned efforts become economic disasters. Ultimately, they have turned to commercial vendors who bring the benefit of economies of scale and competition.

If the goal is to recapture ultimate control of their data and information technology systems, which I would concur is critically important, then that is best accomplished by insisting that all vendors provide source code and use open formats for all their data. Fortunately, all the Linux based companies are doing precisely that today, which is why they deserve support from progressive governments. It's exciting and unusual to see states taking the lead in technology. I hope their actions stimulate the marketplace, which will create long term solutions in the most cost effective manner.




-- Michael


Commercial-Free !!!
 
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degojs

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil10.05.2005. u 23:46 - pre 230 meseci
Al' vidi šta ti je linuxovac:

Citat:
Weekly patches


Ne može nego da usput malo laže na Windows i MS :)
Commercial-Free !!!
 
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Dejan Lozanovic
Dejan Lozanovic
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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil12.05.2005. u 15:32 - pre 230 meseci
Citat:
degojs: Al' vidi šta ti je linuxovac:
Ne može nego da usput malo laže na Windows i MS :)


Ma nije taj bas najcistiji, nego pogledaj ovo

http://europa.eu.int/idabc/en/document/4198/469

Kada u USA njihove vladine organizacije prelaze na Open Source tu nisu ni malo cista posla. Da nisu amerikanci mozda videli da se konji potkivaju pa i oni digli nogu ? :)
 
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krdr
Dragan Krstic

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil12.05.2005. u 17:23 - pre 230 meseci
@degojs, odnosno Michael Robertson

Brazil je najjaca ekonomija J.Amerike, a Kina je ekonomija sa 1,3 milijarde ljudi koja se najbrze razvija na svetu. Kina ima vise fakulteski obrazovanih nego SAD stanovnika starijih od 18 godina. SMesno je uporedjivati Kinu sa zemljama koje hoce da imaju svoju auto industriju...

Mislim da momak malo kuka jer mu kineska vlada otima trziste.

Ovde nisu u pitanju dva tri programera, vec armija programera koja ce sve da uradi za manje para i prilagodjeno Kini. Onako kako im drzava kaze. Sa potpuno definisanim planom razvoja.

Svoje misljenje o Brazilu, Kini i Linuxu sam dao u ranijem nekom postu, ne bih da ponavljam cinjenicu da se Kina plasi da ce bit ispijunirana, a da Brazil hoce da svoju ekonomiju odvoji od SAD.

Neko ovde nekom maze oci
krdr
Mozda i proradi
 
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tdjokic
Tomislav Djokic
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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil12.05.2005. u 19:15 - pre 230 meseci
Citat:
degojs: A šta na to sve kaže šef Linspire, Michael Robertson?
U tekstu se nalazi i jedna obicna greska - Mandriva se sastoji od bivseg Mandrake i brazilske Conective. Dakle, bas one kompanije koju je sef Linspire-a i preporucivao, pa ispada da samog sebe demantuje. Osim toga, diskusija doticnog gospodina ima i jednu principijelnu gresku - Linspire je manja firma, tako da on licno ne bi tebalo da kritikuje "tamo neki Brazil" sto hoce da ima svoju distribuciju. Meni je to mozda promaklo, ali ja uopste nisam cuo da Brazil hoce svoju distribuciju samo da bi imao svoju distribuciju, vec je poenta stvari da se preporucuje i zahteva prelazak na Linux. Osim Conective, Brazil ima jos par popularnih distribucija. Na kraju krajeva, ako jedan iskusniji pojedinac moze da napravi "Linux od pocetka" sto to ne bi mogla i jedna drzava? Slovenci imaju par distribucija, a prilicno su manji od Brazila.
Na svetu postoje samo 2 OS-a: 1. Mint, 2. svi ostali!
 
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Sundance

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil16.05.2005. u 09:28 - pre 230 meseci
Yeah, that's the way. Neka svaka zemlja ima po 3-4 svoje distribucije, po mogućnosti što je moguće više nekompatibilne, isključivo lokalizirane sa custom mehanizmima upgradeovanja isključivo binarnih paketa i totalno decentraliziranim managementom i podrškom.

Odlična platforma i softverski ekosistem, nema šta.

Kinezi idu čak i dalje, zaboli ih za linux, prave oni svoj Kylin:

http://www.kylin.org.cn/
 
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tdjokic
Tomislav Djokic
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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil16.05.2005. u 09:47 - pre 230 meseci
Citat:
Sundance: zaboli ih za linux
In particular, Kylin has been designed to comply with the UNIX standards and is thoroughly compatible with Linux applications.

Izgleda da ih ipak malo "boli" i za Linux. U svakom slucaju, Sundance, hvala za informaciju i promovisanje Linuxa
Na svetu postoje samo 2 OS-a: 1. Mint, 2. svi ostali!
 
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Sundance

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil16.05.2005. u 10:25 - pre 230 meseci
Gle, to nije linux kao kernel. Imaš i na win neko programče koje pokreće neke linux binaries u compatibility modu, a i Cygwin/SFU za portanje izvornog koda. Koliko vidim ovako malo koliko je našvrljano na stranici, arhitekturalno je superiorniji od linux kernela :>

Citat:
The system service layer is responsible to provide services to upper applications. Application Programming Interfaces which are compatible with POSIX and LSB standards are provided in this layer.


Dakle LSB/POSIX kompatibilnost će se osiguravati samo kao jedan personality server iznad mikrokernela.

Ukoliko si pod linux mislio kao open-source u cjelini, onda je OK. KDE layer je tu, što će obradovati mnoge wannabeje :) Ali KDE je portan i na win, koji je isto closed source, a je nigdje i ne vidim da piše da će kylin biti open-source??
 
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Dejan Lozanovic
Dejan Lozanovic
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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil16.05.2005. u 18:08 - pre 230 meseci
Citat:
Sundance: Gle, to nije linux kao kernel. Imaš i na win neko programče koje pokreće neke linux binaries u compatibility modu, a i Cygwin/SFU za portanje izvornog koda. Koliko vidim ovako malo koliko je našvrljano na stranici, arhitekturalno je superiorniji od linux kernela :>

Dakle LSB/POSIX kompatibilnost će se osiguravati samo kao jedan personality server iznad mikrokernela.

Ukoliko si pod linux mislio kao open-source u cjelini, onda je OK. KDE layer je tu, što će obradovati mnoge wannabeje :) Ali KDE je portan i na win, koji je isto closed source, a je nigdje i ne vidim da piše da će kylin biti open-source??


E konacno si poceo da razumes celu stvar :) meni linux kernel nije nista drazi od recimo BSD-a ili Hurd-a znaci na kernel kao kernel gledam potpuno modularno kao i na bilo koju drugu stvar (recimo print server ili file/print)
 
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Sundance

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icon Re: Nisu samo kina i brazil19.05.2005. u 06:30 - pre 230 meseci
Citat:
Dejan Lozanovic:Meni linux kernel nije nista drazi od recimo BSD-a ili Hurd-a znaci na kernel kao kernel gledam potpuno modularno kao i na bilo koju drugu stvar (recimo print server ili file/print)


Meni je ionako svejedno pošto mrzim glupe monolitne *nixe :>

Jesam li vam pričao kako će LH imati redizajnirani I/O manager koji će sve IRP-ove za manje važne periferalije (tastatura, miš i sl. gluposti) reflektirati u userland, a u kernelu ostavit samo storage, networking i filesystem?

Možda onda da Linusu pošaljemo kopiju nekog drivera napisanog u C# :))))

Eh šta ti je ljepota mikrokernela :>
 
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