Zoltan Dani, čovek koji je srušio mit o „nevidljivom” i oborio lovca bombardera F-117A

@tyranBL, ne, nisam ja rekao da su Ameri "imali milosti" vec da je upotreba "prekomerne sile" u kolicini koju je ta sila pimenjena u Iraku, u slucaju Srbije svakako nesto sto bi ostavilo daleko teze diplomatske posledice po Amere. Rat je, na zalost, cist biznis - a kalkulacija stete takodje ukljucuje i diplomatsku komponentu koju je neko vrlo verovatno dobro sracunao pre bilo kakvih akcija - zato su se i odlucili na iskljucivo vazdusni nacin ratovanja.

Slazem se sa tobom oko ostataka - Sadam jeste bio pretnja za naftne izvore, dakle medjunarodnu ekonomiju i zato nije bilo tesko dobiti medjunarodnu dozvolu za razracuvavanje sa njim uz upotrebu teske sile, dok je rat u Srbiji bio daleko nategnutija rabota sto se bona-fide razloga za rat tice.



Ne, naravno niko nije popio previse Jelen piva - ali je ocigledno da su Ameri mislili posle prve nedelje operacije da su uspostavili potpunu superiornost u vazduhu i da mogu da lete nize, opasnije i sl... kada su im zbog ocigledne greske u proceni oborena 2 aviona i napravljena priceless PR steta za F117, promenili su strategiju i od tada oni nemaju gubitaka koliko se secam. Da smo mi stvarno izmislili neki nacin za efikasno rusenje F-117, kao sto se u onom novinskom clanku implicira - mislim da bi Ameri imali malo veci problem od 2 srusena aviona tokom prve nedelje operacije ;-)


_{[Ovu poruku je menjao Ivan Dimkovic dana 12.07.2006. u 09:02 GMT+1]}

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Samo ovoliko ? Ili imas neki specifican kriterijum kako su sruseni ?

Kriterijum? Avioni (ne bespilotne letilice) i helikopteri oboreni od strane nase RV-PVO.

To su statistike rata koje se mogu naci po raznim medjunarodnim izvorima i koje su potkrepljene dokazima - ima jos jedan F-15 za koji se tvrdi da je srusen tokom dogfight-a ali je sporan i to je to - hajde i njega da dodamo, to su 3 oborena aviona i 2 ostecena.

Ostalih 1000 aviona koje je Slobina PR masinerija tvrdila da su oboreni su misteriozno dezintegrisani u sub-atomske cestice i Ameri su u roku od par dana zamenili registarske table na nekim drugim avionima kako bi prikrili svoj nevidjen gubitak i medjunarodnu blamazu ;-)

Doduse, PR masinerija na stranu (sasvim normalno za rat), mora se odati i cestitka VJ koja se drzala daleko bolje nego sto su u NATO-u mislili, i imali su vrlo male gubitke u odnosu na kolicinu NATO aviona ukljucenih u sam sukob. Takodje treba dodati i veliki broj bespilotnih letilica koji je oboren sto je svakako uspeh VJ-ine PVO.

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Ne zna se ko je vise lagao, mi ili oni! Pitanje je samo u sta, ko, slepo veruje!

@Buljko,

Postoje kvantitativni nacini za procenu stete u ratu - sakrivanje ï otpis srusenih aviona gde svaki kosta 100+ miliona dolara je nesto u sta mogu da poveruju samo ljubitelji najludjih teorija zavere. Ne znam kakve to veze ima sa verom, posto nije bas pametno mesati veru u surovu realnost ;-)

Ko voli, moze da misli da smo mi tajnim F-117 oruzjem koje je razvio Zoltan u svoje slobodno vreme "krseci naredbe vojnog vrha" (Rambo style), razvalili pola NATO pakta a da se ceo svet zaverio da to sakrije do sada nevidjenim metodama da se ne blamiraju ;-)

Treba biti iskren, jako je veliki uspeh i to sto smo im oborili 2 ili 3 najmodernije opremljena aviona koji su imali podrsku sve sile raznih Avaksa, satelita za osmatranje, obavestajnih podataka, bespilotnih letilica i sl.., i tesko ostetili jos 2 od kojih je i taj drugi bio F-117, dakle stealth - NATO je otprilike srusio tek malo vise nasih aviona u vazduhu a ti nasi avioni su bili opremljeni ispod svakog nivoa takoreci stap & kanap tehnikom! Dakle to uopste nije los skor za nas, i sama cinjenica da im je srusen stealth avion je veliki plus za nasu PVO i istorijski landmark koji ce ostati pribelezen svuda.

E, sad - kome to nije dosta, moze da veruje i u te bajke za laku noc jer imaju i tako lep miris teorije zavere (ceo svet vs. mi, po 1000 put) - to nam je valjda nacionalni sport ;-))

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Kakva nam je drzava, ne bi me cudilo da ga i uhapse

Zoltan je dobrovoljno pristao da napusti vojsku uz prekvalifikacije. Išao je na FON na program Prizma koji stranci finansiraju za preobuku oficira u menadžere. Ali svaka takva akcija je fol "dobrovoljna". Da nam je vojska normalna takvi ljudi ne bi iz ne ni išli.

Mislim da mu i sin ide na FON. Čim imaš studenta a ne živiš u BG u prilično si gadnoj situaciji.

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Najbolje znaju Bosanci iz Tuzle koliko su aviona Ameri imali ostecenih (u bazi) a samo na podrucje Majevice je palo 7 aviona (piloti su se trudili da padaju na teritoriju Bosne-jer je oni i kontrolisu.

Na aerodromu Tuzla je unisteno preko 20 aviona (jes da su bili na zemlji-znaci nisu "oboreni")


23 Apasha helikoptera je spaljeno u Albaniji a da nisu ni poletjeli..

itd...

sve ukupno preko 70 letjelica je unisteno-samo sto su svi linkovi i sa bbc i ostalih sklonjeni...

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Jel oni Bosanci sto su pronasli piramidu pre koji mesec? ;-)



A onda je mrmot.... :)

Kao sto rekoh - skromnost nam nikad nije bila vrlina, nije nam dosta sto smo im u vazduhu unistili 2 ili 3 najmodernija aviona opremljena najnovijom radarskom tehnikom i debelo ostetili jos 2, vec moraju da se prave deseterci i friziraju cifre - verovatno ce za 300 godina deca da uce kako je Kraljevic Marko skrsio 5000 NATO aviona jednim potezom tako sto se zakasljao :)

Dobro, ajde, unistili smo im 70 letilica i sve su misteriozno nestale a brojevi su im zamenjeni, steta od par milijardi dolara je nekako sakrivena uz pomoc knjigovodstva firme Arthur Andersen (ulozili su avione u R&D ;-) - BBC je uklonio linkove i niko to nije snimio od par desetina miliona ljudi koji im prate sajt, i sve je to jedna 3ABEPA ;-)

Against all odds - ali je istina :)

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Ivane, zasto napise ZAVERA cirilicom?

Ma meni je najjace ono sto on drzi u ruci, na slici. Nek covek lepo stavi taj deo su sef, a kod god zatrebaju pare za nova kola, stan, belu tehniku, itd :), uzme nozic odsece delic, ostatak vrati u sef, i na ebay-u oglasi prodaju dela F-117tice, sigurno ne bi islo ispod x0.000$ ...

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Nego koliko se ja sećam, nevidljivog je oborio neki potporučnik... (google, google...)

Jeste - zove se Darko Nikolić.

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srecom pa ima linkova jos:)

http://jrv127.tripod.com/nato.html


http://www.warinfo.org.yu/0429.html


http://www.nato.int/pictures/1999/990526/b990526l.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/serbia/doc/nato-gz.htm

"Si-En-En podseća na izjave jugoslovenskih zvaničnika da su tokom četiri dana agresije već oboreni neki avioni NATO, ali je ovo sada, kako kaže Sadler, potvrđeno i snimkom.


Reporter je podsetio američku javnost i da je do sada NATO uporno demantovao da ima bilo kakve gubitke, a zatim je dodao da se pre početka "vojnog udara" na SRJ upozoravalo na izuzetnu sposobnost jugoslovenske protivvazdušne odbrane. "

Sledece je iz "Air Forces Monthly"

On 04-04-99 a "USAF 31st FW F-16C made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport Bosnia-Herzegovina." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)

On 04-19-99 a Danish AF F-16 "made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina, due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect NATO SFOR troops in Bosnia." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

On 04-25-99 a USAF F-15 fighter jet "made emergency landing at Sarajevo Airport, escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

April 21 An F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES "suffered extensive damage in an unspecified landing accident, details unconfirmed, but reported as a Class A accident." (source: Air Forces Monthly, August 1999, p. 74)

An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Force Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)

On 04-16-99 a USAF 52nd FW/ 81st FS A-10A 81-0984/'SP' "suffered oil pressure failure and diverted to Petrovac Airport, Skopje, Macedonia, for an emergency landing." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)

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i opet se vracamo marketingu- posto se istina placa, ko se dobro proda i kupi dovoljno podrske taj GOVORI istinu.

malo offtopic:
juce u Bosni je bila godisnjica Srebrenice (stradanja Muslimana) cisto VJERSKO okupljanje (po zelji porodica) gdje se sjatilo i zvano i nezvano(diplomatski kor, karla de ponte....)" Srebrenica" -mjesto gdje je SAHRANJENO preko 8000 Muslimana (a gdje su izginuli i u kom periodu, ne zna se, bitno da je marketinski odradjeno i da se vodi 1995)
a danas na Petrovdan 12.07 je parastos Srpskim zrtvama preko 3000 koji su pobijeni u jednom danu pod komandom Nasera Orica (koji je dobio samo DVIJE godine zatvora za to) i da ne nabrajam vise....

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24.03 - 20:35 - near Titel
Historical event for both Yugoslav Air Force and MiG-29. Maj. Nebojša Nikolić (now Lt.Col.) shot down an F-16 before being shot down himself. This was the first kill of the war and the first by a MiG-29. He received the Medal for Bravery. It was also the first kill by the Yugoslav Air Force since WW2.

25.03 - 01:00 - Sarajevo, Bosnia (Rajlovac airfield)
USAF F-15E damaged in dogfight with MiG-21. Landed at Sarajevo airfield spewing thick smoke. Confirmed by NATO. The incident was confirmed by LtCdr Sheena Thomson of SFOR during a joint NATO-SFOR press conference on 03-25-99. You can read the complete transcript of the press conference here.

26.03 - 17:20 - village Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska, Bosnia
USAF F-15E. Crew was killed. The plane was hit by an air-to-air missile near Lazarevac, fired by Slobodan Peric flying MiG-29A.

26.03 - Zrenjanin
A group of eight British Harrier fighter jets came under heavy AAA fire while on a mission over Yugoslavia on 26-03-99. All of the Harriers are said to have returned to the Gioia del Colle base. However, several aircraft are believed to have been heavily damaged. According to the British Ministry of Defence, the Harriers had to turn back to their base before completing their mission.

27.03 - 20:38 - Budjanovci
One USAF F-117A, serial number 82-0806/'HO' from 49th Fighter Wing, 8th Fighter Squadron, based at Holloman, New Mexico was shot down. Aircraft was shot down by Col. Gvozden Djukic's air defense unit (official report). According to NATO, pilot (Cpt. Ken 'Wiz' Dwelle callsign "Bandit 475") was rescued, but the fact is that Cpt. Dwelle wasn't even drafted for the war. He was at the Holloman AFB, New Mexico at the time of the shot down. New reports suggest that the mysterious pilot was Maj. Darrell P. Zelko, callsign "Bandit 338"

01.04 - 03:05 - Zagreb, Croatia
Emergency landing of one damaged F-117A. Event reported by Radio Zagreb of Croatia.

04.04 - Sarajevo, Bosnia (Rajlovac airfield)
According to Air Forces Monthly (June 1999, p. 92), one USAF F-16C from the 31st Fighter Wing made an emergency diversion to Sarajevo airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina

06.04 - 02.30 - Aleksinac
F-16. My cousin watched it fall to the ground.

06.04 - 23:37 - Vozdovac, Belgrade
Dogfight between Yugoslav Mig-21 and US F-15. F-15 crashed near Avala mountain. Confirmed by an eyewitness.

07.04 - 02:00 - Podgorica
French Mirage 2000. Missile missed but pilot ejected anyway.

07.04 - 23:55 - Novi Sad
Belgian F-16Bof Belgian 349sqn. 42 year old pilot and 28 year old female co-pilot captured. Plane was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka with M-55A3B1 20mm AA gun.

16.04 - 23:30 - Skopje, Macedonia (Petrovec airfield)
Emergency landing of one heavily damaged USAF A-10 serial number 81-0984/'SP' from 52nd Fighter Wing, 81st Fighter Squadron. Plane was hit with two portable SAMs. According to NATO spokesman, aircraft suferred oil pressure failure and was diverted to Petrovec for an emergency landing.

19.04 - early morning - Sarajevo (Rajlovac airfield)
Emergency landing by one Danish F-16A. Plane was damaged by a SAM but according to NATO, it was due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect SFOR troops in Bosnia.

25.04 - Sarajevo, Bosnia (Rajlovac airfield)
According to Air Forces Monthly and confirmed by NATO, one USAF F-15 made an emergency landing escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump (possibly caused by SAM hit).

30.04
An F-117A of the 49th Fighter Wing was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Forces Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)

01.05 - 14:15 - Adriatic Sea
One USMC AV-8B from 26th MEU / VMA-231 ditched in the Adtriatic, close to the amphibious ship USS Kearsarge (LHD-3). According to NATO it crashed after losing power while preparing to land on return from a 'training mission'. The pilot ejected safely and was recoverd by a helicopter from the ship after about five minutes in the water. Yugoslav ADF claimed a hit on an AV-8B over Kosovo that day prior to NATO announcement.


02.05 - 04:00 - Nakucani near Sabac
One USAF F-16CG serial number 88-0550/'AV' from 31st Fighter Wing, 555th Fighter Squadron "Triple Nickel" based at Aviano, Italy was shot down. Aircraft was downed by Col. Gvozden Djukic's air defense unit but NATO's report says it suferred an engine failure over Metlic, while returning from a combat mission and crashed near the village of Nakucani. The pilot (probably Lt.Col. Guy "Guide" Dahlbeck) ejected and was rescued 18 km east of Kozluk by an allied combat SAR team some two hours later and returned to Aviano in good condition.

02.05 - 18:00 - Skopje, Macedonia (Petrovec airfield)
Emergency landing of one USAF A-10A serial number 81-0967/'FT' from 23rd Fighter Wing, 74th Fighter Squadron. Many eyewitnesses reported that the aircraft appeared to have serious damage to one of its engines (right engine relative to the pilot) and a wing. Several missiles were still attached to the underwing pylons, creating a danger of explosion and a panic among local residents. The pilot of the aircraft was reported to have been injured. Some 40 minutes after the crash, the aircraft was towed by a NATO vehicle to the Petrovec airport.

05.05 - morning - 75km NE of Tirana, Albania
US Army AH-64A Apache from 12th Aviation Brigade/11th Aviation Group/C Troop/6th Squadron/6th Cavalry Regiment crashed. The pilot Chief Warrant Officer 3 David A. Gibbs and the gunner Chief Warrant Officer 2 Kevin L. Reichert were killed. According to a German newspaper Welt am Sonntag, NATO's classified report cited a SAM hit as a possible reason for the crash. Article here.

13.05 - 04:25 - Nova Pazova
One B-52H hit and damaged. Aircraft then headed toward Dobanovci where it crashed. 17 people killed.

17.05 - 15:30 - between Brestovik and Smederevo
One French Mirage 2000 that crashed on a highway Belgrade-Obrenovac. Pilot ejected and captured shortly after.

20.05 - 03:03 - Borca near Belgrade
One large NATO aircraft. Story confirmed by numerous eyewitnesses. At 06:00 news, a source from the federal ministry acknowledged the downing of one large NATO bomber. Later on, it was acknowledged that it was a B-52H Stratofortress. Interesting to notice is that according to spotters from Fairford airbase, UK, one B-52H, serial number 61-0020, assigned to 96th BS (part of 2nd BW at Barksdale, Louisiana) took-off that day but never came back.

30.05 - 00:30 - Ivanovo nr Belgrade
One aircraft (according to report from Romania, French Mirage 2000) hit with Strela-2M portable SAM. Plane jettisoned its fuel tank nearIvanovo and its armament near villages Idvor and Kovacica. Romanian sources say that the aircraft crashed near Temisoara in Romania.

31.05 - 14:10 - Sabac
One aircraft hit by a missile. Immediately after that, plane jettisoned its fuel tank and headed for Bosnia airspace. From the report of local villagers, plane crashed in the eastern part of Bosnia, near Bijeljina. By the remains of the fuel tank, the aircraft is an F-16. Whole incident was televized by RTS.

07.06 - 00:30 - area between Slankamen and Indjija
One large bomber was shot down. Witnesses claim that the aircraft had four jet engines. Aircraft managed to evade the first SAM, but exploded after a direct hit by a second one. Crew probably killed. Interesting to notice is that according to Fairford spotters, one B-1B, serial number 85-0074, assigned to 77th Bombing Squadron, 28th Bombing Wing, based at Ellsworth, South Dakota took-off but never came back

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Ivane sto si tako skeptican? Ne bi me cudilo da ti ja sad dam istinit primer iz mog kraja a ti kazes : A onda je

mrmot zavio cokoladu.....


A ***o te vise mrmot i cokolada, nisam ovde da bih hvatao zazubice. Slusaj dobro:

Vojni aerodrom Ladjevci:

Godina 1999.-a

Poznavao sam neke inzinjere i mogao sam da se uverim u ono sto su kazivali.

Pistu bi maskirali i sakrili sumom, granjem, satorskim krilima, a malo dalje od piste bi prostrli NAJLON koji je bio

priblizno sirok pisti. Gadjali su po tom najlonu kao ludi. I onda reci da nemamo dovitljive ljude. Reci da smo glupi.

Reci da si i ti glup. I ja. Svi mi. Istine radi, i pista je udesena, ali uvek su je sredjivali extra brzo. Da li znas koliko su

zapreznih kola oblikovanih poput tenka pogodili??? Da li znas da je NATO bio sokiran kada je nasa vojska krenula da

se izvlaci sa Kosova? Mislili su da su nas sve sredili. A u stvari gadjali su po drvenariji i kolonama izbeglica.Secas li se?

Ako ne znas, cuti.




Istine radi, to delo mozda nije piramida, ali jeste delo ljudskih ruku. Raspitaj se.





Vala bas!

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Ne fermam tu "stranjsku" ili slične NATO-alike analize, Ivane! Lično sam poprilično najeb'o od strane NATO-a, gađan više od par puta. Istina TAMO kod njih NIJE, sigurno.
Saznao sam za taj usrani avion baš od čoveka koji je gledao kako pada. Moj policajac iz jedinice, živi u Sremu.

Znam ŠTA i KAKO sam saznavao o obaranjima-promašajima preko radio-veze, kurira, poverljivih depeša i ostalih veza, preko Vojske i Policije.

Bio sam tada poprilično visoko u hijerarhiji Savezne Policije, ali gotovo UVEK na terenu! Glavni sanitetski tehničar Brigade Savezne Policije, to sam bio! Samim tim, nisam čitao "Politiku" niti gledao "Dnevnik", grrrrr!

Većina ovde prisutnih, tada maloletnih, je bila u stanovima, kućama ili gledala avione iz dvorišta (bar dok ne odlete), dok smo mi 'vatali krivine, uzaludno pucali, nervirali se i bacali po rovovima da spasemo glave od šrapnela! WTF!

Lancia88, kakvi su nam zvanični rezultati? Tebi verujem, jer si u problematici više od ostalih ovde.

Ovo je MNOGO osetljivo. Ne preterujte sa lupetanjem, svi!

Pozdrav!

Mene zanima sta je na kraju bilo sa f117?znam po snimcima da su ga neki ganci natovarili na spediter(propaganda rts1) ali sta je posle bilo sa njim

Zar nije u muzeju vazduhoplovstva u Surcinu?

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jeste

http://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co...1/12/16/srpski/R01121502.shtml

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Ostatke F117 su iseckali i delkali kao suvenire. I ja sam malo ucestvovao, u odbrani, ako se to moglo zvati odbrana.
Podaci o srusenim avionima, i letelicama, tesko da ce biti validni. "Gubitasi" nece nikada, zvanicno priznati sve, a "nasi" podaci su zasnovani na "ratnim" elementima obaranja. Raketa poletela, nije imala otkaz, cilj nestao sa radara... Do "poslednje verifikacije", delova oborene letilice, najcesce nije lako doci, posto komadi (ako je raskomadana) mogu da prelete i 30-tak kilometara.

Jedini "relevantni" podatak, da se nesto dogodilo, je povecanje broja angazovanih aviona u drugoj polovini kampanje. Izgleda da se, sa "prvim" brojem letelica, priblizilo kolicini od 10% gubitaka, sto ameri tesko mogu kongresu da pravdaju. Sa povecanjem broja aviona, postotak gubitaka pada.

Za Danija se "znalo", ali zbog poverlljivosti nije spominjan ni on ni brigada. Veliki broj ljudi koji su ucestvovali u akcijama, danas je u penziji, valjda im je bilo dosta "igranja", a i vojska treba da se transformise u modernu, a oni samo poznaju 30-40 god. staru opremu.

Poz.

ja sam vise mislio naneku pricu koju sam cuo da su rusi bili veoma zainteresovvani za ostatke...