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Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!

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Flo33
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 12:19 - pre 185 meseci
Sto mrzim pasivne pusace!
 
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IonX
SCG, Beograd

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 12:36 - pre 185 meseci
Ja ne.
Samo mi jako smetaju netolerantni ljudi.
 
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stil

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 12:44 - pre 185 meseci
Slika govori više od 1000 reči.

Lung cancer



Poprečni presek plućnig krila čoveka. Bela masa u gornjem delu je kancer; crno obojene oblasti su posledica pušenja.

Kako može od ovakve mešavine da izađe nešto dobro.




Rendgenski snimak raka pluća

Prikačeni fajlovi
 
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IonX
SCG, Beograd

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 12:54 - pre 185 meseci
Kako smo već rekli, wikipedija nije naučni dokument već je uređuju svi.
Svaki link koji sam ja postavio ima isti kredibilitet koliko i wikipedija.


Slika pluća sa kancerom jeste strašna, ali su još monstruozniji oni koji je, iako bez dokaza, svesno vezuju sa pušenjem.

Zašto kod žena najčešći oblik kancera nije plućni nego rak dojke, kad pušenje toliko utiče na dobijanje istog?


Ne postoje statistički dokazi da tkzv "pasivno pušenje" povećava rizik od dobijanja raka kod nepušača (jer se dokazi koji to demantuju skrivaju od javnosti), tako da zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima nema nikakvog smisla ni razloga, osim diktature ( i pljačke preko paraporeza tj akciza) nad jednim delom stanovništva.
Nekad druge religije, rase, kršitelji crkvenih dogmi, pa Jevreji, crnci, indijanci, muslimani, romi, nudisti, oni koji slušaju drugačiju muziku, homoseksualci, drugačije politički opredeljeni, prostitutke, uživaoci marihuane,... sada pušači.
What's next?

Šta si hteo da postigneš tim slikama?
Da uplašiš nekog?

U priči "Životinjska farma" DŽ.Orvela, svako potencijalno protivljenje dirigovanom mišljenju i "zakonima" se proterivalo uterivanjem straha u kosti pomoću pretnji povratkom farmera/diktatora "Da se Džons ne vrati!"
"Nećete da nam dajete mleko? Hoćete da se Džons vrati?"
"Ne slažete se da vladajuća rasa ima ekstra luksuz? Hoćete da se Džons vrati?"
(parafrazirao sam da ne bi sada objašnjavo celu priču)

"Hoćeš da pušiš u kafani? Hoćeš da dobiješ rak?"
"Zapalio bi cigaretu u bašti kafića? Hoćeš da dete koje to udiše oboli od astme? Hoćeš da seksualno onemoćaš?"
Isto.

[Ovu poruku je menjao IonX dana 03.02.2009. u 14:10 GMT+1]
 
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DaliborP

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 13:39 - pre 185 meseci
Znaci pusenje nije stetno. Nema dokaza pa to ti je. Sve je to relativno, mozda se rak pojavio zbog previse kisele vode, to niko ne moze da zna zasigurno.
Tako kaze IonX a to sto prica svetska medicina je zamazivanje ociju postenih pusaca. Anitpusacki lobi. Kako li oni pare zaradjuju da mi je znati.
 
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stil

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 13:40 - pre 185 meseci
Ma daj, skroluj malo na dno strane pa pogledaj

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^ Slotman, B; Faivre-Finn C, Kramer G et al. (August 2007). "Prophylactic cranial irradiation in extensive small-cell lung cancer". New England Journal of Medicine 357 (7): 664–672. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa071780. PMID 17699816.
^ Hof, H; Muenter M, Oetzel D et al. (July 2007). "Stereotactic single-dose radiotherapy (radiosurgery) of early stage nonsmall-cell lung cancer (NSCLC)". Cancer (Wiley InterScience) 110 (1): 148–155. doi:10.1002/cncr.22763. PMID 17516437.
^ Simon, CJ; Dupuy DE, DiPetrillo TA et al. (April 2007). "Pulmonary radiofrequency ablation: long-term safety and efficacy in 153 patients". Radiology 243 (1): 268–275. doi:10.1148/radiol.2431060088. PMID 17392258.
^ a b Bencardino, K; Manzoni M, Delfanti S et al. (March 2007). "Epidermal growth factor receptor tyrosine kinase inhibitors for the treatment of non-small-cell lung cancer: results and open issues". Internal and Emergency Medicine 2 (1): 3–12. doi:10.1007/s11739-007-0002-5. PMID 17551677.
^ Feld, R; Sridhar SS, Shepherd FA et al. (May 2006). "Use of the epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitors gefitinib and erlotinib in the treatment of non-small cell lung cancer: a systematic review". Journal of Thoracic Oncology (International Association for the Study of Lung Cancer) 1 (4): 367–376. doi:10.1097/01243894-200605000-00018. PMID 17409886.
^ Sandler, A; Gray R, Perry M et al. (December 2006). "Paclitaxel–carboplatin alone or with bevacizumab for non–small cell lung cancer". New England Journal of Medicine (Massachusetts Medical Society) 355 (24): 2542–2550. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa061884. PMID 17167137.
^ Edelman, MJ (September 2006). "Novel cytotoxic agents for non-small cell lung cancer". Journal of Thoracic Oncology 1 (7): 752–755. PMID 17409954.
^ Danesi, R; Pasqualetti G, Giovannetti E, Del Tacca M (May 2007). "The role of pharmacogenetics in adjuvant treatment of non-small cell lung cancer". Journal of Thoracic Oncology 2 (5 Suppl.): S27–S30. doi:10.1097/01.JTO.0000268638.10332.07. PMID 17457227.
^ Blackhall, FH; Shepherd FA (March 2007). "Small cell lung cancer and targeted therapies". Current Opinion in Oncology 19 (2): 103–108. doi:10.1097/CCO.0b013e328011bec3. PMID 17272981.
^ Lee, JM; Mao JT, Krysan K, Dubinett SM (April 2007). "Significance of cyclooxygenase-2 in prognosis, targeted therapy and chemoprevention of NSCLC". Future Oncology 2 (2): 149–153. doi:10.2217/14796694.3.2.149. PMID 17381414.
^ Whitehead, CM; Earle KA, Fetter J et al. (05/01/2003). "Exisulind-induced Apoptosis in a Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Orthotopic Lung Tumor Model Augments Docetaxel Treatment and Contributes to Increased Survival". Molecular Cancer Therapeutics (American Association for Cancer Research) 2 (5): 479–488. PMID 12748310.
^ Scagliotti, G (June 2006). "Proteasome inhibitors in lung cancer". Critical Reviews in Oncology/Haematology 58 (3): 177–189. doi:10.1016/j.critrevonc.2005.12.001. PMID 16427303.
^ Dragnev, KH; Petty WJ, Shah SJ et al. (March 2007). "A proof-of-principle clinical trial of bexarotene in patients with non-small cell lung cancer". Clinical Cancer Research (American Association for Cancer Research) 13 (6): 1794–1800. doi:10.1158/1078-0432.CCR-06-1836. PMID 17363535.
^ Albright, C; Garst J (July 2007). "Vaccine therapy in non-small cell lung cancer". Current Oncology Reports 9 (4): 241–246. doi:10.1007/s11912-007-0029-9. PMID 17588347.
^ Sun, S; Schiller JH, Spinola M, Minna JD (October 2007). "New molecularly targeted therapies for lung cancer". Journal of Clinical Investigation (American Society for Clinical Investigation) 117 (10): 2740–2750. doi:10.1172/JCI31809. PMID 17909619.
^ "Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment". PDQ for Health Professionals. National Cancer Institute. Retrieved on 2008-11-22.
^ "-Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment". PDQ for Health Professionals. National Cancer Institute. Retrieved on 2008-11-22.
^ Mountain, CF (1997). "Revisions in the international system for staging lung cancer" (PDF). Chest (American College of Chest Physicians) 111: 1710–1717. doi:10.1378/chest.111.6.1710. PMID 9187198.
^ "Cancer Statistics Review 1975-2002 - Search". Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results (SEER). Retrieved on 2007-11-18.
^ "Commonly diagnosed cancers worldwide". Cancer Research UK. April 2005. Retrieved on 2008-01-11.
^ Lum, KL; Polansky JR, Jackler RK, Glantz SA (October 2008). "Signed, sealed and delivered: "big tobacco" in Hollywood, 1927-1951". Tobacco Control 17 (5): 313–323. PMID 18818225.
^ Parent, ME; Rousseau MC, Boffetta P et al. (January 2007). "Exposure to diesel and gasoline engine emissions and the risk of lung cancer". American Journal of Epidemiology 165 (1): 53–62. doi:10.1093/aje/kwj343. PMID 17062632.
^ "Gender in lung cancer and smoking research" (PDF). World Health Organization. 2004. Retrieved on 2007-05-26.
^ Liu, BQ; Peto R, Chen ZM et al. (1998-11-21). "Emerging tobacco hazards in China: 1. Retrospective proportional mortality study of one million deaths". British Medical Journal 317 (7170): 1411–1422. PMID 9822393.
^ Behera, D; Balamugesh T (2004). "Lung cancer in India" (PDF). Indian Journal of Chest Diseases and Allied Sciences 46 (4): 269–281. PMID 15515828.
^ Mohr, SB; Garland CF, Gorham ED et al. (2008). "Could ultraviolet B irradiance and vitamin D be associated with lower incidence rates of lung cancer?". Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 62 (1): 69–74. doi:10.1136/jech.2006.052571. PMID 18079336.
^ a b Chen, F; Bina WF, Cole P (April 2007). "Declining incidence rate of lung adenocarcinoma in the United States". Chest 131 (4): 1000–1005. PMID 17426202.
^ Charloux, A; Quoix E, Wolkove N et al. (February 1997). "The increasing incidence of lung adenocarcinoma: reality or artefact? A review of the epidemiology of lung adenocarcinoma". International Journal of Epidemiology 26 (1): 14–23. PMID 9126499.
^ Morgagni, Giovanni Battista (1761). De sedibus et causis morborum per anatomen indagatis.
^ Bayle, Gaspard-Laurent (1810) (in French). Recherches sur la phtisie pulmonaire. Paris.
^ a b Witschi, H (November 2001). "A short history of lung cancer". Toxicological Sciences 64 (1): 4–6. doi:10.1093/toxsci/64.1.4. PMID 11606795.
^ Adler, I (1912). Primary Malignant Growths of the Lungs and Bronchi. New York: Longmans, Green, and Company. OCLC 14783544., cited in Spiro SG, Silvestri GA (2005). "One hundred years of lung cancer". Am. J Respir Crit Care Med 172 (5): 523–529. doi:10.1164/rccm.200504-531OE. PMID 15961694.
^ Grannis, FW. "History of cigarette smoking and lung cancer". smokinglungs.com. Retrieved on 2007-08-06.
^ Proctor, R (2000). The Nazi War on Cancer. Princeton University Press. pp. 173–246. ISBN 0-691-00196-0.
^ Doll, R; Hill AB (November 1956). "Lung cancer and other causes of death in relation to smoking; a second report on the mortality of British doctors". British Medical Journal 2 (5001): 1071–1081. PMID 13364389.
^ US Department of Health Education and Welfare (1964) (PDF), Smoking and health: report of the advisory committee to the Surgeon General of the Public Health Service, Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office
^ Pirozynski, M (December 2006). "100 years of Lung Cancer". Respiratory Medicine 100 (12): 2073–2084. doi:10.1016/j.rmed.2006.09.002. PMID 17056245.
^ Greaves, M (2000). Cancer: the Evolutionary Legacy. Oxford University Press. pp. 196–197. ISBN 0-19-262835-6.
^ Office of the Home Secretary (1976). Biographical Memoirs. National Academy of Sciences. ISBN 0-309-02349-1.
^ a b Edwards, AT (1946). "Carcinoma of the bronchus". Thorax 1 (1): 1–25.
^ Scott, WJ; Howington J, Movsas B (January 2003). "Treatment of stage II non-small cell lung cancer". Chest (American College of Chest Physicians) 123 (Suppl. 1): 188S–201S. doi:10.1378/chest.123.1_suppl.188S. PMID 12527579.
^ Smythe, WJ (January 2003). "Treatment of stage I non-small cell lung carcinoma". Chest (American College of Chest Physicians) 123 (Suppl. 1): 181S–187S. doi:10.1378/chest.123.1_suppl.181S. PMID 12527578.
^ Kabela, M (1956). "[Experience with radical irradiation of bronchial cancer]" (in German). Ceskoslovenská Onkológia 3 (2): 109–115. PMID 13383622.
^ Lennox, SC; Flavell G, Pollock DJ et al. (November 1968). "Results of resection for oat-cell carcinoma of the lung". Lancet (Elsevier) 2 (7575): 925–927. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(68)91163-X. PMID 4176258.
^ Miller, AB; Fox W, Tall R (September 1969). "Five-year follow-up of the Medical Research Council comparative trial of surgery and radiotherapy for the primary treatment of small-celled or oat-celled carcinoma of the bronchus". Lancet (Elsevier) 2 (7619): 501–505. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(69)90212-8. PMID 4184834.
^ Cohen, M; Creaven PJ, Fossieck BE Jr et al. (1977). "Intensive chemotherapy of small cell bronchogenic carcinoma". Cancer Treatment Reports 61 (3): 349–354. PMID 194691.

[edit]
External links
Chest Radiology Lung cancer tutorial
Lung cancer at the Open Directory Project
LungCancer.org — free resources and support services
National Cancer Institute
Tobacco Smoke and Involuntary Smoking, Summary of Data Reported and Evaluation 2004 by the IARC
Lung Cancer Articles & Information Stop Smoking Articles & Information at National Institutes of Health



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Broj pojavljivanja raka pluća je povezan sa pušenjem.

Postoji zadrška od 20 godina između pušenja i raka pluća.

Izvor : National Institutes of Health (NIH)

[Ovu poruku je menjao stil dana 03.02.2009. u 14:55 GMT+1]
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 14:54 - pre 185 meseci
Pazi, nemoj sada da misliš da hoću da dokažem da pušenje nije štetno po zdravlje.

Što se toga tiče, smatram da su podaci preuveličani, ali moje (nažalost, samo opšte) znanje, slaba dostupnost podataka i vreme mi ne dozvoljava da bolje argumentujem nelogičnostikoje zapažam.

Smatram da je LAŽ priča o tkzv "pasivnom pušenju" i "bolestima koje ono uzrokuje".
Na to se fokusiram, jer ta teza (nedokazana, sudski oborena) je osnov za zabrane o kojima smo počeli da pričamo.
proguglaj, kad budeš imao vremena "passive smoking fraud". Naćićeš nekoliko zanimljivih tekstova.
Imaj u vidu da su informacije cenzurisane te da kvantitativno imaš stotine "dokaza" i "argumentovanih" tekstova koji idu u prilog tezi, a 10x manje protiv.
Kako rekoh, veliki je novac u igri.

BTW jesi li zapazio na grafikonu da se odnosi samo na muškarce (men)?
Da li to znači da kod žena nisu uspeli da isfabrikuju "dokaze" ili su one otpornije?
Posebna je priča koliko su autentični i verodostojni statistički podaci iz 1900. ili 1910-te godine, a i krive su isuviše slične, kao da ih je neko rukom crtao.
Malo je sumnjivo.

Takođe, prošle godine je otkriven gen odgovoran za rak dojke.
http://www.index.hr/vijesti/cl...voran-za-rak-dojke/416209.aspx

Šta kaže wikipedija:
http://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rak_dojke
Osim, naslednosti, naravno, pušenje (koje se uzima kao "rizično za skoro sve bolesti" :) ), zatim
Citat:
alkoholizam (već samo svakodnevno pijenje pola čaše vina povećava rizik od oboljevanja za 6%)

Ali se pijenje alkohola na javnim mestima ne zabranjuje (kolko god da je taj procenat tačan ili ne).
 
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stil

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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 16:12 - pre 185 meseci
Zdrav razum je ono što ovde treba upotrebiti. Dakle, ako ti sagorevanjem duvana stvoriš mešavinu gasova i nekakvih čestica od čega se dokazano umire i udišeš to sa kiseonikom koji ti je neophodan za život . U momentima kada se nalaziš u istom kontaminiranom prostoru sa pušačem. Nije logično da to sada najednom nije opasno. Razumeš. Čak i ako pluća pušača služe kao nekakav filter cigareta oslobađa otrovne materije i dok on ne inhalira dim u sebe.
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 16:33 - pre 185 meseci
Citat:
DaliborP: 
Da, primetio sam kad pojedem malo vise kiselih krastavaca kako sledece jutro samo sto se ne ugusim od kaslja i pljuvanja smrada iz pluca.


Daj, ne generalizuj! 30 godina pušim, i to onoliko, a niti ujutru kašljem niti pljujem! Ni preko dana nemam napade kašlja, osim kad se prehladim. A pljuvanje... Ne ja!
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 17:01 - pre 185 meseci
zanimljivosti iz sveta:

Citat:


Neimenovani muškarac odbio je da ugasi cigaretu tokom leta od Kvarajata na severu Saudijske Arabije do crvenomorske luke Džede. Policija ga je uhapsila nakon što je avion sleteo u luku i osudila na bičevanje, saopštio je lokalni sud.



izvor Blic
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 17:44 - pre 185 meseci
Citat:
...odbio je da ugasi cigaretu tokom leta...

Znači u avionu. Pa, u prevoznim sredstvima bilo koje vrste bi i moralo da bude zabranjeno pušenje iz protivpožarnih razloga, a ne zbog nečijih razmaženih noseva. Osim toga, u Saudijskoj Arabiji je mnogo toga zabranjeno, između ostalog i marihuana, za čiju si se legalizaciju založio na onoj temi koju si obrisao...
The only place you can find Success before Work is in the dictionary.
-------
If you want to shoot, then - shoot; don't talk!
-------
One shot - one hit...
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 18:06 - pre 185 meseci
nisam postovao ovo zbog zabrane, nego zbog nacina na koji kaznjavaju...
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 18:17 - pre 185 meseci
Citat:
ajdeBre: Pa, u prevoznim sredstvima bilo koje vrste bi i moralo da bude zabranjeno pušenje iz protivpožarnih razloga, a ne zbog nečijih razmaženih noseva.

Ako iskreno misliš ono što govoriš, tj. slažeš se da pušenje u prevoznim sredstvima treba zabraniti iz protivpožarnih razloga, onda pročitaj i ovo: naime, zabeleženi su slučajevi da je došlo do požara i u neprevoznim sredstvima, tačnije u nekakvim velikim tvorevinama od blokova i cigala, obloženih malterom, koji neki nazivaju kućama i zgradama. Eto, i u takvim ovjektima može da dođe do požara izazvanog cigaretom te verujem da se ti zalažeš za ukidanje pušenja u njima.

Šalu na stranu, mislim da su „razmaženi nosevi“ glavni razlog zbog kojeg je pušenje nedozvoljeno u autobusima i drugim prevoznim sredstvima. Takođe, npr. do skora je u Nemačkoj i još nekim zemljama bilo dozvoljeno pušenje u određenim vagonima u vozu, a sada više nije. Mislim da do te zabrane nije došlo iz razloga što je bio povećan broj požara u vozovima.


[Ovu poruku je menjao Emil Ranc dana 03.02.2009. u 19:49 GMT+1]
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 19:06 - pre 185 meseci
Citat:
flylord: nisam postovao ovo zbog zabrane, nego zbog nacina na koji kaznjavaju...

Kako li tek kažnjavaju marihuanu... Btw, bičevanje kod njih spada u blaže kazne; ima tu i sečenja delova tela, postoji i kamenovanje do smrti...svašta nešto...
Citat:
Emil Ranc: Ako iskreno misliš ono što govoriš, tj. slažeš se da pušenje u prevoznim sredstvima treba zabraniti iz protivpožarnih razloga, onda pročitaj i ovo: naime, zabeleženi su slučajevi da je došlo do požara i u neprevoznim sredstvima, tačnije u nekakvim velikim tvorevinama od blokova i cigala, obloženih malterom, koji neki nazivaju kućama i zgradama. Eto, i u takvim ovjektima može da dođe do požara izazvanog cigaretom te verujem da se ti zalažeš za ukidanje pušenja u njima.

U tim tvorevinama obično dolazi do požara zbog zaboravljene grejalice/šporeta/deca se igrala šibicom... Osim toga, tvorevine od blokova i cigle obično nemaju rezervoar pun benzina/kerozina. Doduše, ima tamo i plinskih boca (plinska boca = manja avionska bomba, po efektu), a obično se zapale/eksplodiraju zbog neispravne instalacije, ili je neko zaboravio da zatvori bocu/isključi šporet. Požara izazvanih cigaretom ima, ali vrlo retko.
Citat:
Šalu na stranu, mislim da su „razmaženi nosevi“ glavni razlog zbog kojeg je pušenje nedozvoljeno u autobusima i drugim prevoznim sredstvima. Takođe, npr. do skora je u Nemačkoj i još nekim zemljama bilo dozvoljeno pušenje u određenim vagonima u vozu, a sada više nije. Mislim da do te zabrane nije došlo iz razloga što je bio povećan broj požara u vozovima.

Sasvim moguće - na kraju krajeva, termin "pasivno pušenje" je i nastao u Nemačkoj - ©Adolf Hitler - smatrao je da pušenje negativno utiče na arijevsku rasu, tj. i on je imao razmaženi nos, pored svih ostalih negativnih karakteristika...
The only place you can find Success before Work is in the dictionary.
-------
If you want to shoot, then - shoot; don't talk!
-------
One shot - one hit...
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 19:08 - pre 185 meseci
Ukoliko ne postoje izdvojene prostorije, odeljci, štagod, u prevoznim sredstvima ili nije ekonomski isplativo da se prave (zbog nemogućnosti predviđanja koliko će pušača a koliko nepušača koristiti to sredstvo, i koliko daleko će podmitljivi parlamenti ići sa zabranama), onda podržavam ovu zabranu.
Svuda gde ima ljudi kojima dim može da smeta, a prirodom posla ili potrebe su prinuđeni da budu u nekom zatvorenom prostoru sa pušačima, TREBA ZABRANITI.
To je stvar kulture i civilizacije.

Evo iste situacije sa dugim sredstvom (sa jednog bloga):
Citat:

meni se drugarica žalila da je morala da prestane da upotrebljava parfem jer su mnogi na poslu smatrali to "ofensive" (predavala je lingvistiku na univerzitetu u San Dijegu u to vreme, inače znam da je upotrebljavala parfem normalno, naime nije se tuširala istim.

Sasvim opravdano.
Zašto drugi da trpe tvoj parfem, smrad, dim, štagod..
 
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jericho1405
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!03.02.2009. u 21:14 - pre 185 meseci
Slazem se da treba zabraniti pusenje na javnim mjestima, tj. u prostorijama u kojima borave kako pusaci, tako i nepusaci. Ideja zasebnih prostorija za pusace izgleda kao prihvatljivo rjesenje. Glavni problem je, svakako, jako negativan uticaj cigareta na zdravlje aktivnih, ali i pasivnih pusaca. Pored toga, duvanski dim moze da jako iritira osobe koje se nalaze u neposrednoj blizini pusaca. To najvise primjecuju nepusaci, jer nisu oguglali na dim.

Takodje, ne znam zasto svi osporavaju kredibilitet Wikipedia-e kada ono sto u njoj pise ne ide njima u prilog, dok u slucaju "povoljnih" informacija, Wikipedia moze da posluzi kao pouzdan izvor? Ako vi kazete kako su rezultati lazirani, pa smatrate da su realne brojke oboljelih daleko manje od onih koje su navedene na stranici, isto tako i mi mozemo da smatramo kako su, takodje, rezultati lazirani, al' sa dopunom da su brojke daleko vece od pomenutih. Sve je to, dakle, stvar ugla iz kojeg posmatramo "problem". Tako da nema mnogo smisla "vrdati" na taj nacin, tj. zmiriti pred faktima i praviti se blesav. Dakle, imamo podatak koji, sigurno, nije neko iz glave, tek onako, bezveze izmislio, vec je, najvjerovatnije, konsultovao neke relevantne izvore, pa tek onda napisao iste na sajt. Zato, bilo bi dobro, ako vec smatrate da su podaci lazirani, da postavite link-ove ka "relevantnim" stranicama koje, pak, tvrde suprotno.

Vezano za Marihuanu. Ovdje niko ne pokusava da potpuno zabrani pusenje, vec da neke stvari oko toga promijeni kako bi se, napokon, izaslo u susret nepusacima. Dakle, ako odes u prostoriju koja je predvidjena za pusace, i zapalis cigaretu, niko te nece kazniti zbog toga, jer radis sasvim legalnu stvar. Medjutim, Marihuana ima status nelegalne stvari, tj. predvidjene su ostre kazne za posjedovanje ili konzumiranje iste. Dakle, ne postoji mjesto na kojem mozes legalno da je konzumiras. To su dvije(nelegalno i ograniceno), jako, razlicite stvari, i nema mnogo smisla porediti ih. Bar ne za sada. Ukoliko, ipak, dodje do legalizacije Marihuane, sigurno, da i nju treba "ograniciti" na nacin kao sto pokusavamo i duvan sada, tj. da bude dozvoljena samo u odredjenim prostorijama, odnosno, lokacijama na kojima se ne ugrozavaju oni kojima to, na neki nacin, smeta.
Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with
experience.
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!04.02.2009. u 08:30 - pre 185 meseci
Generalno, slažem se s tobom, uz male korekcije:

1.Samo mali dodatak ovom pasusu. Dim najviše, više nego nepušačima, smeta bivšim "odjedanput osvešćenim" pušačima i oni su najveći pobornici progona.
Tkzv "pasivno pušenje" nije dokazano. Studija SZO je urađena selektivno, neželjeni rezultati su odbačeni i sudski je oborena. Ljudima u istom zatvorenom prostoru može da SMETA (i to treba poštovati), a mnogo ređe da ŠTETI (u slučajevima alergija i već postojenih oboljenja disajnih organa).

2.wikipediju smatram enciklopedijom koju uređuju čitaoci, ali gde se gleda mišljenje većine.
Većinsko mišljenje t.j. demokratija je sistem gde "dve budale govore jednom pametnom šta da radi". Adolf Hitler je pobedio na demokratskim izborima. Većina je glasala za njega.
Kao što vidiš, mišljenje većine ne mora uvek da bude ispravno. Pogotovo kad je dirigovano i programirano.
(Dodatni primer: Većina ljudi veruje u zvaničnu verziju događaja 11.Septembra.2003., koja je prepuna "rupa" i vrlo verovatno nije tačna)

3. O Marihuani imam samo opšti stav. Mislim da nije ništa štetnija od duvana (pogotovo jer se u nju ne ubacuju katrani i otrovi) i trebalo ih maltene isto tretirati, ali ne konzumiram tako da mi je svejedno.

 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!04.02.2009. u 11:04 - pre 185 meseci
Secondhand smoke: Avoid dangers in the air you breathe

Breathing the toxins in secondhand smoke can literally make you sick. Find out how to avoid secondhand smoke, which can cause cancer, asthma and more.

You don't smoke because you understand the dangers. But what about that thick cloud of secondhand smoke at your favorite restaurant? Or the smoky haze left behind by guests after an evening of partying? What about the effect of secondhand smoke on your children when smoking relatives come to visit?

These instances of secondhand smoke present health hazards comparable to smoking. High in toxic chemicals, secondhand smoke plays a role in causing or contributing to a number of health problems, from cardiovascular disease to cancer. The Surgeon General reported in 2006 that scientific evidence shows there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

But secondhand smoke is often avoidable. Take steps to protect yourself and those you care about from secondhand smoke.
Toxins in secondhand smoke

What exactly is secondhand smoke? It's two different forms of smoke from cigarettes, pipes or cigars:
Sidestream smoke comes directly from the burning tobacco product.
Mainstream smoke is smoke that the smoker exhales.

Secondhand smoke is also known as environmental tobacco smoke, passive smoking, involuntary smoking and perhaps a more descriptive term, tobacco smoke pollution.

Regardless of what you call it, both types of secondhand smoke contain harmful chemicals — and a lot of them. Tobacco smoke contains more than 4,000 chemical compounds, more than 250 of which are toxic. And more than 50 of the chemicals in cigarette smoke are known or suspected to cause cancer. Included in secondhand smoke are:
Formaldehyde
Arsenic
Cadmium
Benzene
Polonium

Here are a few more chemicals in secondhand smoke that might sound familiar, along with their effects on health:
Ammonia — irritates your lungs
Carbon monoxide — reduces oxygen in your blood
Methanol — toxic when inhaled or swallowed
Hydrogen cyanide — a potent poison that interferes with respiratory function

The dangerous particles in secondhand smoke can linger in the air for hours. Breathing them even for a short time — as little as 20 or 30 minutes — can harm you in a variety of ways. And breathing in secondhand smoke over years can be all the more dangerous.
Health threats to adults from secondhand smoke

Health experts have recognized the relationship between secondhand smoke and health risks for decades. Research exploring these connections continues.

Some of the known or suspected health risks include:

Cancer
Secondhand smoke is a known risk factor for lung cancer. Experts believe that secondhand smoke is to blame for about 3,400 deaths from lung cancer in adult nonsmokers each year in the United States. Secondhand smoke is also linked to cancer of the nasal sinuses.

Heart disease
Secondhand smoke harms the cardiovascular system of nonsmokers in many ways. For one thing, it causes heart disease, such as a heart attack. It also damages blood vessels, interferes with circulation and increases the risk of blood clots. It's estimated that some 35,000 nonsmokers die of secondhand smoke-related heart disease in the United States every year.

Lung disease
Chronic lung ailments, such as bronchitis and asthma, have been associated with secondhand smoke. Exposure to secondhand smoke is also associated with chest tightness at night and feelings of breathlessness after physical activity.

Health threats to children from secondhand smoke

Secondhand smoke has a marked effect on the health of infants and children. They're more vulnerable than adults are because they're still developing physically and generally have higher breathing rates, which means they may inhale greater quantities of secondhand smoke than adults do.

For children who live in households where someone smokes, the effects are worst during the child's first five years, since the child may spend the bulk of that time with a smoking parent or guardian. Ironically, infants are at the highest risk of secondhand smoke from their own mothers. A child who spends just one hour in a very smoky room is inhaling as many dangerous chemicals as if he or she smoked 10 or more cigarettes. And even when parents don't smoke at home or in the car, there can still be negative effects when children are exposed to the tobacco smoke pollution released from the clothing and hair of smoking parents.

Here's a look at some of the main health problems in infants and children associated with secondhand smoke.

Growth and development
Women who are exposed to secondhand smoke during pregnancy are at higher risk of having babies of slightly lower birth weight. This can cause a host of health problems for the baby, such as cerebral palsy or learning disabilities. Women who actively smoke during pregnancy expose their developing baby to passive smoke — the chemicals may pass through the placenta — and put the baby at risk of lower birth weight.

An infant who was exposed to secondhand smoke as a developing fetus may be at increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Post-birth exposure to secondhand smoke from the mother, father or others in the household also increases the risk of SIDS.

Asthma and other respiratory problems
Secondhand smoke may cause asthma in children. In children who already have asthma, secondhand smoke can make episodes more frequent and more severe.

Secondhand smoke is also tied to infections of the lower respiratory tract, such as bronchitis and pneumonia, especially in those younger than 6. It's also associated with irritation of the upper respiratory tract and a small reduction in lung function.

Middle ear conditions
Children living in households with smokers are more likely to develop middle ear infections (otitis media).

Other health problems related to secondhand smoke

For both adults and children, secondhand smoke is linked to a variety of other health problems, including:
Chronic coughing, phlegm and wheezing
Eye and nose irritation
Reduced lung function
Irritability
Dental cavities


Limiting exposure to secondhand smoke takes planning. Here are some ways you can reduce or eliminate secondhand smoke in your life.
Don't allow smoking in your home. If family members or guests want to smoke, ask them to step outside. Don't rely on an air conditioner or an open window to clear the air. Running the air conditioner may remove the visible smoke, but it doesn't remove the dangerous particles from circulation. An open window doesn't provide adequate ventilation, either.
Insist that smoking restrictions be enforced in your workplace. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has classified secondhand smoke as a Group A carcinogen, which means it's known to cause cancer in humans. The only way to fully protect nonsmokers from exposure to secondhand smoke is to prevent all smoking in the building. Even powerful ventilation fans don't effectively remove secondhand smoke from the work environment.
Choose smoke-free care facilities. If you take your children to a child care provider, choose one with a no-smoking policy. The same goes for aging relatives. If they live in a long term care facility, make sure it's smoke-free.
Don't allow smoking in your vehicle. If someone must smoke on the road, stop at a rest stop for a smoke break outside the car.
Patronize businesses with no-smoking policies and tell the management that you appreciate the healthy air. Many restaurants and other establishments are entirely smoke-free.
When you absolutely must share a room with people who are smoking, sit as far away from them as possible.
If your spouse or partner smokes, have him or her refrain from smoking indoors, just as you would with houseguests. Encourage your partner to quit smoking.



Na linku na Wikipediji postoje reference na osnovu kojih je tekst sastavljen.
Međutim nije nikakav problem navesti još neke tekstove i linkove koji govore isto.

MAYO CLINIC na primer
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!04.02.2009. u 13:39 - pre 185 meseci
Kako rekoh, orkestrirana "istina" je suviše jaka, ogromni novac nekih lobija je u pitanju, i suprotna mišljenja, radovi, studije i analize ne mogu da nađu put do javnosti.

Citat:
Silencing science: partisanship and the career of a publication disputing the dangers of secondhand smoke
Sheldon Ungar

Department of Social Science, 1265 Military Trail, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada M1C [email protected]

Dennis Bray

Institute for Coastal Research, GKSS Geesthact, Germany

This paper examines the silencing of science, that is, efforts to prevent the making of specific scientific claims in any or all of the arenas in which these claims are typically reported or circulated. Those trying to mute the reporting or circulation of scientific claims are termed "partisans." The paper examines silencing through a systematic examination of the "rapid responses" to a smoking study published in the British Medical Journal claiming that secondhand smoke is not as dangerous as conventionally believed. Media coverage of the smoking study is also examined, as is the question of whether there is self-silencing by the media regarding doubts about the negative effects of passive smoke. The results suggest that the public consensus about the negative effects of passive smoke is so strong that it has become part of a regime of truth that cannot be intelligibly questioned.



Edit: Gle' ovo!
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/326/7398/1057
Citat:

Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98

James E Enstrom, researcher1, Geoffrey C Kabat, associate professor2

1 School of Public Health, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1772, USA, 2 Department of Preventive Medicine, State University of New York, Stony Brook, NY 11794-8036, USA

Correspondence to: J E Enstrom [email protected]

Objective To measure the relation between environmental tobacco smoke, as estimated by smoking in spouses, and long term mortality from tobacco related disease.

Design Prospective cohort study covering 39 years.

Setting Adult population of California, United States.

Participants 118 094 adults enrolled in late 1959 in the American Cancer Society cancer prevention study (CPS I), who were followed until 1998. Particular focus is on the 35 561 never smokers who had a spouse in the study with known smoking habits.

Main outcome measures Relative risks and 95% confidence intervals for deaths from coronary heart disease, lung cancer, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease related to smoking in spouses and active cigarette smoking.

Results For participants followed from 1960 until 1998 the age adjusted relative risk (95% confidence interval) for never smokers married to ever smokers compared with never smokers married to never smokers was 0.94 (0.85 to 1.05) for coronary heart disease, 0.75 (0.42 to 1.35) for lung cancer, and 1.27 (0.78 to 2.08 ) for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease among 9619 men, and 1.01 (0.94 to 1.08 ), 0.99 (0.72 to 1.37), and 1.13 (0.80 to 1.58 ), respectively, among 25 942 women. No significant associations were found for current or former exposure to environmental tobacco smoke before or after adjusting for seven confounders and before or after excluding participants with pre-existing disease. No significant associations were found during the shorter follow up periods of 1960-5, 1966-72, 1973-85, and 1973-98.

Conclusions The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.

Naopako

Istraživanje su finansirali:
Citat:

The 38 years research was funded 95% by American Cancer Society (ACS) and 5% by tobacco companies.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/326/7398/1057


E, da.
Na tom sajtu imaš brdo linkova i referenci.


Zašto se to nije objavilo u svim medijima?

Neko nije dao.

Jao.

QED


[Ovu poruku je menjao IonX dana 04.02.2009. u 15:16 GMT+1]
 
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icon Re: Zabrana pušenja na javnim mestima!04.02.2009. u 14:03 - pre 185 meseci
Citat:
IonX:
1.Samo mali dodatak ovom pasusu. Dim najviše, više nego nepušačima, smeta bivšim "odjedanput osvešćenim" pušačima i oni su najveći pobornici progona.

Ovo je po meni sasvim prirodno. Uzmimo, na primer, jednog nepušača, koji ceo svoj život živi okružen pušačima na ovim ili onim mestima. Iako njemu njihov dim sve to vreme u manjoj ili većoj meri smeta, on se na taj dim nekako navikao.

Pušač, s druge strane, taj dim konstantno unosi u sebe pa ga toliko ne oseća. Njegov organizam ima povećanu toleranciju prema duvanskom dimu. Kada ostavi pušenje, čulo mirisa mu se izoštrava i on duvanski dim počinje da oseća mnogo, mnogo intenzivnije nego do skora. Ovo, naravno, ide paralelno sa, najčešće, njegovim nerviranjem kako više ne sme da zapali, pa ga onda taj dim još više iritira. Najbolji prijatelj postao mu je najveći neprijatelj.

Citat:
3. O Marihuani imam samo opšti stav. Mislim da nije ništa štetnija od duvana (pogotovo jer se u nju ne ubacuju katrani i otrovi) i trebalo ih maltene isto tretirati, ali ne konzumiram tako da mi je svejedno.

Heh, katran se ni ne ubacuje u duvan, već dolazi kao prirodan produkt sagorevanja lišća duvana. Isto tako, sagorevanjem konoplje oslobađa se sve i svašta. Neki tvrde da je po pluća trava još i štetnija, zbog količine smole koju sadrži u sebi.

 
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